Obama/Hagel? Obama/Kerry? Obama/Reed? Obama/Clark???

By jackandjillpolitics


Speculation reached a new level after Senator Obama sent an email to supporters saying he’d pick his vice presidential running mate in the near future.

That speculation got a little more interesting Monday morning when a conference call with the Obama camp revealed that the vice presidential candidate will speak on a night dedicated to veterans’ issues:

via The Huffington Post:

On a conference call on Monday morning, Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius and top ranking aide Anita Dunn announced that the theme for Wednesday — the night on which the vice presidential candidate is scheduled to speak — will be national security and honoring veterans. The choice, a reporter noted, lent itself to the interpretation that Obama would choose a running mate with background in military affairs — like, say, Sen. Chuck Hagel or John Kerry.

When considering military experience, the names Wesley Clark and Jack Reed also come to mind. Was this a slip of the tongue or is The Huffington Post making something out of nothing? After all, just last week many in the media had Democrats prepared to slap an Obama/Bayh bumper sticker on the back of their cars. The week before, Tim Kaine got all the press.

This could be a wild goose chase . . . or maybe not.

A veep with military experience could help on several different levels. First, take the electoral map. Virginia is said to be a state that’s big on veterans’ issues. An Obama/Hagel or Obama/Reed ticket might play well in that state where 13 electoral votes are up for grabs. Second, there’s no reason to doubt that Republicans will try to use military service as a sledgehammer in the Fall. It would help to have someone on the ticket who’s biography won’t be as susceptible to that ever-present “He doesn’t respect the troops” meme that Republican officials love to trot out every time someone questions their foreign policy. Finally, conventional wisdom suggests that Obama should consider picking a veep that solidifies his foreign policy/national security bona fides. Hagel, Reed, Kerry and Clark could all help in that department.

Again, this could all be a distraction meant to shift media attention away from Obama’s real pick. I still think Obama could go with Senator Joe Biden. Bayh is still the media favorite. And I’d be interested in seeing an Obama/McCaskill (Missouri is a swing state) or Obama/Sebelius ticket.

But the prospect of an Obama/Hagel/Kerry/Clark or Reed ticket leaves a lot to ponder . . .

Obama/Hagel?

I’ve always felt that this pick would signal supreme confidence from the Obama campaign, showing that they intend to play offense in the Fall. It’s a hard play for the Independent vote and Hagel could do wonders to paint McCain as the man who lost his way on foreign policy . . . a man who let the wings of his better angels get clipped by Republican partisanship.

Indeed, picking Hagel would be a “maverick” move by Obama. What better way to beat McCain than to out-maverick “The Maverick“?

But Hagel’s biggest draw could also be his biggest weakness. He’s a Republican and it’s hard to know whether Obama’s base would stomach a candidate who agrees with them on the war, but disagrees with them on a host of other issues.

Obama could pull it off. A unity ticket would dominate the headlines and capture the imaginations of millions of voters. A Democrat/Republican ticket is certainly consistent with Obama’s “Change” theme, and it might be an answer to the partisan gridlock that’s consumed Washington for years. But it’s the type of “change” that could give some Democratic voters pause. Is the Democratic base prepared to trust a Republican vice president?

Obama/Kerry?

I personally love the poetic justice in this ticket. Who better to help lead the charge against the Republican attack machine than the candidate who faced the swift-boaters himself?

Talk about redemption. I can’t think of a better feel-good political story than to see Senator Kerry get payback for the 2004 Republican Convention. Remember those flip flop sandals and purple heart band aides? Well so do a lot of Democrats. Those images have been stuck in their minds for the past four years. Given the left-over emotions from 2004 and the enthusiasm for Obama in 2008, an Obama/Kerry ticket could yield the highest voter turnout from any of the tickets mentioned in this article.

But would Kerry be embraced by the Democratic establishment? A lot of people still blame Kerry for running a weak campaign in 2004. And some progressives still haven’t forgiven him for failing to fight charges of voter disenfranchisement in Ohio. Generally speaking, Democrats have a bad habit of disowning their candidates after a loss (convenient that it’s always the candidate’s fault). They rarely give second chances.

Plus, one can never underestimate the vigor of the Republican attack machine. Make no mistake about it, an Obama/Kerry ticket would require full throttled support from the Democratic party. Republican pundits and conservative talk radio would have a field day drudging up some of their old Kerry material.

It’s a winnable fight, but Democrats would have to stay focused and united in order to make it work . . . that’s ALL Democrats, whether they be moderate or progressive. Indeed, the success of an Obama/Kerry ticket might say more about the vitality of the Democratic Party (moderate and base support) than the candidates themselves.

Obama/Clark?

Clark showed he can play offense when he took the fight to McCain in June. I’ve always seen him as the best option from the pro-Clinton crowd. He’s a familiar face and his Arkansas roots might play well in Southern states vulnerable to an Obama upset.

Plus, speculate on this:

via The Huffington Post:

According to USA Today, the theme for Wednesday, Aug. 27 is “Securing America’s Future,” which just also happens to be the name of Gen. Wesley Clark’s political action committee.

This would be another bold choice for Obama because of the type of fight Clark is willing to have with McCain. His recent dust-up over the relevance of military service to be president strikes at the heart of McCain’s message. If successful, an Obama/Clark ticket could challenge the conventional wisdom that surrenders any and all things military to Republican partisanship. It’s a fight that many on the left have been wanting for some time. An Obama/Clark ticket could rally the Democratic base.

But the success of an Obama/Clark ticket could hinge on Obama’s willingness to fight. Obama distanced himself from Clark’s statement in June, and the Republicans would try their best to paint an Obama/Clark ticket as anti-troops and anti-service. Democrats (both moderate and base) would probably be up for that fight. But would Obama? Does that fight play well among Independents? Would such a fight ultimately benefit McCain, taking most attention away from traditionally Democratic issues like the economy, education and health care?

Obama/Reed?

Senator Jack Reed is a veteran with strong credentials (senior member of the Armed Services Committee) who’s support for the troops would be hard to question. Senator Reed has visited Iraq eleven times and has a history of voicing support for the troops and advocating for better armor and armored vehicles. Progressives will appreciate the fact that Reed voted against the Iraq war. Perhaps most importantly, Reed is seen as having a sensible voice on Iraq. Just listen to this stellar review:

“Jack travels to Iraq, he has friends in Iraq, and because of his many connections, Jack sees things in Iraq that a lot of us don’t get to see,”
- Senator John McCain of Arizona. (Senator Reed on Iraq)

So is there a downside? Well, Senator Reed is an unknown quantity in national politics. Reed would be a stable force on the ticket, but the campaign might have to waste time and effort introducing him to the national audience.

Plus there’s not a lot to say just how well Senator Reed campaigns. Is he sharp and tough enough to withstand attacks on his character? Can he stand up to Republican smears?

Finally, does an Obama/Reed ticket excite the Democratic Party? Reed seems like a safe pick, but does he help excite Democratic voters?

Only time will tell who Obama picks as his running mate. But it’s always fun to speculate. Picking a military veteran might focus the election on foreign policy and Iraq. Is this a fight Obama wants? Or would he rather use his veep choice to shift national focus onto traditionally Democratic issues like the economy?

Regardless of who he picks, the spotlight will continue to rest on Obama (for better or worse). Barring any vice presidential scandal (ahem . . . on second thought, that Obama/Edwards ticket wouldn’t have worked out so well), rest assured that this race will be won or lost at the top of the ticket.

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Comments

(153)

My favorite ticket....

McCain/FRist!

[mwahahaha!!]

I prefer...

I prefer a John McCain/Larry Craig 08 ticket.

Together they have a "wide" range of experience. They can "stomp" out terror, "tap" oil reserves in the Outer Continental Shelf, and place personal responsibility at the "feet" of our citizens. Together they can "crack" our dependence of foreign oil, and jump start our "stalled" economy - truly get it out of the "crapper." The solution to our nation's problems is in the "palm of their hands"! This country does not have, nor has it ever had, a better team to lead us into the gay and prosperous future we deserve!

-- McCain = Four more years of the same --

LOL!

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

By dtaylo75 August 12, 2008 - 11:23am

Good one...... but I'm not giving you my FRist! :D

rebut

Have you considered stand-up? LOL. That was an excellent comment.

My Picks

I would love to see Gore/Obama or vice-versa but realistically Obama/Clark is ideal. Clark is the perfect complement in that his strengths offset Obama's weaknesses. Additionally, his greatest strength is McCain's greatest weakness: his military record. Having Clark on the ticket would highlight McCain's real military background.

Clark strikes me

as nothing more than a brown-nosing shill for whatever scenario will happen to further himself at the time. He has been kissing Clinton ass thinking he might the #2 spot with her. He was an extremely weak presidential candidate who just appears shifty, calculating, unnatural and just not good at the politicking/pr thing. He loses credibility with me with each subsequent word that comes out of his mouth.

If you want a Veep with a military background, why don't we go with a candidate that actually won a presidential election in 2004, ie John Kerry. I get the feeling he would not listen to the DLC whose goal is for Republicans to win presidential elections, as they did their best to lose the last 2 because they are Republicans. They were only successful in the fascist media and without the Obama voter turnout.

If Jim Webb is not willing, Kerry seems like the next logical choice. Max Cleland would be a consideration as well. It would be difficult to "one up" a vet that actually lost limbs as a result of his sacrifice for our country. He would fair better in a national election as his home state if full of knuckle-dragging confederetards that apparently thought he sacrificed three limbs only so he could support Al Qaeda by not voting to steal their civil rights. It becomes clearer daily why the Confederates had their asses handed to them in the name of slavery.

Logic doesn't always apply in American politics...

John Kerry is a war hero who hates war. A former district attorney. A United States Senator. Even with all these assets, he's the butt of jokes. I'm afraid Americans don't always want the logical person. Wes Clark is widely perceived as a tough guy, a no-nonsense leader, etc. Even with his obvious political maneuvering, he's likely to play in Peoria better than Kerry would.

Also, the way we view candidates in America has changed. 150 years ago, candidates ran for president, lost, and ran again, sometimes years later. Benjamin Harrison served a term, lost, ran again, and was elected to a second term four years after his first one! Unfortunately, today, we've been socialized to throw "losers" under the bus. Once a candidate has run and lost, particularly for president, that is pretty much it.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

What are your

thoughts about Max?

Two possible drawbacks

1. Is he well known enough outside Georgia?

2. He voted for the war. The repubs could use that as a deadly weapon.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Good points.

He would only be well-known to talk radio listeners outside of Georgia, but not the general public.

I agree with your thoughts about the war vote, especially considering his explanation for it...purely political.

Oh well, just a thought.

You are thinking of Grover Cleveland

He served a term, lost to Harrison, then beat Harrison for another term.

Indeed

My bad. It's one of those lazy, between-semesters days!

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Yeah Lib, stupidity is the rule for swing voters.

I despise right wingers, but at least they believe in something. I can respect that.
Swing voters vote ( if they bother) for the most fucked up reasons. I talked to one dude in a bar in Bismarck ND after the 2004 election. He said he voted against Kerry because " he didn't like his face."
DUUUH!

It's just a different kind of false consciousness...

When the republics lose their moral high ground and they can no longer vote "family values," Americans vote for a beer buddy. MSM tells them they're supporting the "plain folks" candidate, not letting on that anyone, dem or republic, who reaches the point of running for president, can't possibly be "plain folks."

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Didn't like his face

I think you'll see a lot of that in '08, particularly among the poorly educated white trash NASCAR crowd.

Either that...

Or they'll all be out shooting at cars with Obama stickers.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

According to the Corporatist Elite Media

Kerry looks "too French" and got his three purple hearts under questionable circumstances (compare and contrast to the applicant to the Texas Air National Guard who scored a 25% on the entrance exam, then was vaulted into the unit over the heads of about 500 more qualified applicants, then refused to take a flight physical, was grounded, applied for a transfer to Alablama, never served in Alabama (at least no one remembers him), then failed to even register in Massachusetts when he went to business school) and Obama doesn't look (or his name doesn't sound) American enough. I wonder what meaningless degradation they would throw at Clark? He's too soldierly? His nose is too pointy? He served as C-in-C of NATO, those "Old Europeans" who refuse to torture in the name of regime change?

Obama/Paris Hilton

Just to piss off McCain

Up Hill Battle

FUBush2,
I guest that will go as well as the Harold Ford senate race.

In addition to pissing of McCain and similar like minded voters, considering what happen in the edwards campaign, maybe Mrs Obama would have a problem with that ticket.

Good Effort .... but keep pitching!
Thanks

How about

Hilton/Spears?

their stats about the rise

their stats about the rise of hate groups shows just what the manufacturing of fear does.
thanks george

What a bunch of pathetic, little men.

When will they realize that they going the way of the dinosaur?

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

By f u bush2August 12, 2008 - 2:50am

FauxNews foments that racism & then they get to report on it. How convenient.

Support the Troops.
End the Occupation.

Heard on Ed's show today

that someone stormed into the Arkansas state Democtratic committee's HQ in Little Rock and shot the state chairman.

Complies with the Repugnican requirement: "If it disagrees with you, KILL IT."

Yes, the chairman is dead as is the coward who killed him.

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

And just look at how this kind of terrorism gets treated...

The cops aren't even saying who the asshole was. Also, MSM seems to be barely covering this. All in all, white male right wing terrorism isn't thought of as important.

How many more people will these fascists kill on Rush's orders?

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Obama/Clark or Obama/Webb ...

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

Istill want a Obama/Robert

Istill want a Obama/Robert Reich ticket. We need someone who understands the economy. Its always the economy stupid.

Istill want a Obama/Robert Reich ticket

I like it but who will take over leadership of the Lollypop Guild?

If not Hillary...Expect Trouble at the convention

Hillary was so close to the nomination that it would have been crazy/weak of her not to the carry the fight to the convention floor ...unless she was promised the VP slot.

No one had a right to ask her to step down.

I not a not a hillary supporter but she should have been allowed to got to the convention and fight for the nomination.

What has this so-call party unity from hillary quitting early got us, Obama moving to the right and barely leading a very weak republican candidate in the national polls.

I guest you idiots can believe she ran out of campaign money and fell into big debt, but if she couldn't hire a good accounting team to handle all that money she raised, then do we really want her running the government.

Therefore, it's plan and simple....Either Hillary is the VP or there will be a fight at the convention.

If it is, what is the problem a good old convention fight for the nomination, Obama has lost that corporate media glow now that he is running against their boy. I good old fight will help define the democratic party on polical backbone instead of selling out the the highest campaign donors.
Thanks

By KvnRJohnso407 August 12, 2008 - 2:52pm

No one had a right to ask her to step down.
----------------------
Some might differ with your assertion, and point to a specific right. Namely:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

We all had/have a right to ask her to step down.
She had/has the right to ignore such calls.
She had/has the right to continue on with her antics in an attempt to sink Obama.
She had/has the right to run again in 2012 if she succeeds in helping McCain.
We had/have the right to remember it, remind others of it, and reject her again come time.

And we did.
And she did.
And she will.
And she will.
And we will.
____________________
"We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace."
"Power to the peaceful..."
--Franti

What!!!!

SJersey,
I should have been more specific.
You are correct....Anyone can ask, but the leaders of democratic party had no right to force her out of the campaign.

Yeah, the group that couldn't or wouldn't force GW to get out of Iraq will go down in historyy as forcing the first serious female candidate for president to get out of the race.

Your first Comment We all/have the right to ask...
Yes you could ask, but shouldn't you repect the right of her supporters that was almost as large as Obama's and came from true democratic states.

Second:Your point on her ignoring the request to step down is like you ignoring my point as to why she did.

Third:If Obama trailed hillary by the same margin, would you have asked him to step down? I know I would not...but I am fair minded and truly believe in the democratic process.

Fourth:I can't think of the last democratic nominee that failed to recieve a earlier nomination. Ask, Mondale, Gore and Kerry.

Fifth:So even if she ran again in 2012, you wouldn't vote for her considering you don't know what the issues my be at that time and what she has accomplished. What was that joke about GW, it went something like, "The thing I like about GWBush is that he will make the same decision on Wednesday as he did on Monday no matter what happen on Tuesday!"

In closing, "rights" are like guns, just because you have one, you still must be careful with what you aim and shoot at.
Thanks

By KvnRJohnso407 August 13, 2008 - 11:01am

You are correct....Anyone can ask, but the leaders of democratic party had no right to force her out of the campaign.
Yeah, the group that couldn't or wouldn't force GW to get out of Iraq will go down in historyy as forcing the first serious female candidate for president to get out of the race.

----------------------
Gibberish. Nobody forced her out, and you know it.
While at times there were individuals who suggested that if Team Clinton could not keep themselves from launching attacks during the primary that could serve to hurt the presumed nominee in some way during the general maybe they should give thought to uniting behind that presumed nominee, nobody and no group of people forced them out.
A primary was had. They lost. They then had the choice as to whether they would acknowledge that loss, concede, and congratulate and endorse the winner. As torturous as it was/has been for them to do so, they did. On their own accord. Defiant as they were/have been in so doing.

Yes you could ask, but shouldn't you repect the right of her supporters that was almost as large as Obama's and came from true democratic states.
--------------------------
Shouldn't you try not to disrespect the Obama supporters from any state by referring to Hillary's supporters as those that came from "true democratic states"? That Clinton Insult 45 States Strategy should've died its well-deserved death when it and its purveyors lost to the 50-State Strategy.

Second:Your point on her ignoring the request to step down is like you ignoring my point as to why she did.
---------------------------
Your point on the request to step down is moot as described above.
Nobody asked them to step down.

Third:If Obama trailed hillary by the same margin, would you have asked him to step down? I know I would not...but I am fair minded and truly believe in the democratic process.
--------------------------
No. As I didn't ask for Team Clinton to step down.

Fourth:I can't think of the last democratic nominee that failed to recieve a earlier nomination
---------------------------
I can't think of the last time the choices for Democratic nominee were a young, relatively unknown African-American Senator and a woman who was First Lady for eight years.

Fifth:So even if she ran again in 2012, you wouldn't vote for her considering you don't know what the issues my be at that time and what she has accomplished.
---------------------------
Nope. I wouldn't vote for her/them to be nominee again in 2012 considering what I know of her/them now that caused me to not vote for her/them this time.

What was that joke about GW, it went something like, "The thing I like about GWBush is that he will make the same decision on Wednesday as he did on Monday no matter what happen on Tuesday!"
-----------------------------
No. I think voting for The Clintons again would more along the lines of the Bush joke:

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

____________________
"We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace."
"Power to the peaceful..."
--Franti

You can hardly even remember when Clinton was pres

you damn kid. What were you doing in 1992? Working for the Dem nominee that stood for change?

I hope you are right!!!

"Shouldn't you try not to disrespect the Obama supporters from any state by referring to Hillary's supporters as those that came from "true democratic states"? That Clinton Insult 45 States Strategy should've died its well-deserved death when it and its purveyors lost to the 50-State Strategy."
SJersey,
Come on ......all those southern and western states Obama won in the democratic primary do you really think he can take them in the fall?
Recent polls don't seem to support that position.

I have respect for all voters... it's the ones that choose not to vote that I don't respect.

I would have even greater respect for the missisippi Obama supporters if we win the state in the fall.
You see, it not that I don't respect Obama primary voters, it's like I don't believe they can do it.
It's like I love the skins, but I don't believe they can win the NFC.
Thanks

By KvnRJohnso407 August 13, 2008 - 12:11pm

Come on ......all those southern and western states Obama won in the democratic primary do you really think he can take them in the fall?
Recent polls don't seem to support that position

--------------------------
He could. Maybe not all of them. But some of them.
And recent polling does, in fact, support that possibility: http://www.pollster.com/
Not as if that matters, as whether or not Obama would win said states is irrelevant. The voices of the primary voters in those states matter every bit as much as the voices of primary voters in other states, a concept you seemingly disagree with given your comment re: "true democratic states".

I have respect for all voters... it's the ones that choose not to vote that I don't respect.
---------------------------
Or the ones that voted but suffer the unfortunate reality of not living in an ordained "true democratic state".
____________________
"We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace."
"Power to the peaceful..."
--Franti

Say What

Third:If Obama trailed hillary by the same margin, would you have asked him to step down? I know I would not...but I am fair minded and truly believe in the democratic process.
--------------------------
No. As I didn't ask for Team Clinton to step down.

SJersy,
If the above statement is correct...then why the fire-fight over my post.
Thanks

Say What Again!!

"Second:Your point on her ignoring the request to step down is like you ignoring my point as to why she did.
---------------------------
Your point on the request to step down is moot as described above.
Nobody asked them to step down."
SJ,
You are aware of all the political pressure from the DNC, other democrats, and the corporate media placed on the superdelegates to get behind a candidate before the convention.

If not, it's no point in carrying on discussion further until you do some research.
Thanks

By KvnRJohnso407 August 13, 2008 - 12:28pm

You are aware of all the political pressure from the DNC
-----------------------
The same DNC with members/Clinton supporters like Lanny Davis fighting til the end?

other democrats
-----------------------
Like Ed Rendell? Bill Clinton? Debbie Wasserman Schultz?

and the corporate media placed on the superdelegates to get behind a candidate before the convention
-----------------------
Yeah, I remember all those folks applying pressure from both sides on unpledged delegates.
I also remember most unpledged delegates chose on their own to fall on Obama's side.
Nobody pushed The Clintons out. They lost the "race for delegates".

I'd be interested to see if your research suggests otherwise.
And by research, I mean not your opinion.
____________________
"We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace."
"Power to the peaceful..."
--Franti

Only the Objective need Apply

"Fifth:So even if she ran again in 2012, you wouldn't vote for her considering you don't know what the issues my be at that time and what she has accomplished.
---------------------------
Nope. I wouldn't vote for her/them to be nominee again in 2012 considering what I know of her/them now that caused me to not vote for her/them this time."
SJ,
Well now it's clear why you have a problem with my post. You just don't like the clintons.

To set the record straight, I didn't vote for bill in 92, or 96. I didn't vote for his wife in the primary.
I didn't vote for Obama.

Therefore, my position is based on political fairness and the democratic process.

Fact, Obama didn't win the nomination out right during the primaries like say Gore and Kerry therefore considering how close the results where, democrats have to be careful in how this thing is resolved and thats' why I wanted the thing to go to the convention floor where the candidates could plead their case directly to the delegates. If Obama won, great. The same can be said for Hillary.

However, I believe that Hillary was promised the VP choice and I don't have a problem with her stepping down for the position.
Thanks

By KvnRJohnso407August 13, 2008 - 12:40pm

I think you are stuck on minor details and getting all worked up. This reminds me of houndog the other day. I pointed out how our economy is in part running on the purchases of people using credit to buy what they can't afford. I made the point that drastic changes are going to affect our economy and that needs to be considered. I never used the argument to advocate any particular position or plan. But houndog and another right winger automatically assumed I was advocating some plan to forgive debt and keep allowing people to run up debt for the sake of the economy. They wanted to see something in my words that they didn't like.

Now looking quickly over your argument with SJI there are a few things that are pretty clear. You seem to like Clinton. SJI does not. I mean "like" as far as being the nominee. How much like or dislike there is overall I'm not getting into.

But put that aside. The issue of whether anyone has the right to ask her to step down from the nomination process can be settled without considering candidate preference. You made the statement that no one has the right to ask her to step down and I think SJI answered it correctly. This is a democracy. People had a right to say she should have stepped down back when it was clearly over but she stayed in the race. They also have the right now to say she shouldn't go into the convention and try to take the nomination away. SJI pointed this out and he also pointed out that she has the right to decide for herself when to drop out and whether or not she should challenge the nomination at the convention.

Her decision would be based on what the public is thinking. If people are saying she should not challenge at the convention and she does, well that is her right but it won't work. However if the people are saying she should then it would be a popular move.

Your statement that "no one has the right to...." reminds me of the right wing troll hatey. He has made statement s like this. He has argued on occasion for instance that we are nobody and have no business complaining about politicians in office. This is a mindset that is dangerous. The German people in the early part of the 20th century considered themselves "little people". They said they had no voice because they were little people. Now we see from the right on occasion arguments that we should behave as such. We shouldn't be vocal about those in or running for office because "who are we?"

You may have not intended it in that manner but to some of us that sort of statement is very wrong and a red flag. That is why you got a response.

As to your continued arguments, I haven't read through the whole thread but on first glance it appears you are trying to appear neutral but really you are arguing because in your heart you are still bitter over Hillary's loss. Maybe I'm wrong but either way you are getting worked up over minutia.

I am so sick and tired of fanatical Hillary supporters

demanding this and that as a salve to their bruised egos. She lost, plain and simple. So she needs her name brought to the convention floor for a nomination vote so she and her supporters can have a catharsis? Fair enough. We should make sure then that all candidates get the same opportunity, whether it's Hillary, Biden, Kucinich, Edwards, Gravel or Richardson. Can't have them and their supporters feeling bad now, can we?

Hillary is getting one last chance to prove she is a leader. If she goes along with her supporters and her ego, and lets her name come up for nomination from the convention floor, she will prove that she has absolutely no idea of what true leadership is. It will also tarnish her historic campaign, and her place in history. Most importantly, it will guarantee that she will not even make it to the runner up slot, whether it is in 2012 or 2016. Her antics during the primary and since have even turned off some of her supporters.

By UffdaguyAugust 13, 2008 - 1:32pm

I don't know why she would want to be VP. It was my understanding that she doesn't want it. She has a better position as senator.

Unless you intend to be a VP in the mold of Cheney, it is

a powerless, deadend job for the most part. In fact, it seems that over the past half century, the main job responsibility of a VP has been to put together a political machine that can get them the presidency once the president's term is over.

Improving here!!!

"I don't know why she would want to be VP. It was my understanding that she doesn't want it. "
FUbush2,
Now that a good point....now what is your source or reference.
Thanks

By KvnRJohnso407August 13, 2008 - 2:07pm

Now that a good point....now what is your source or reference.

Back when she first dropped out there were leaks to the press that she wanted to be asked to be VP but that she didn't want it.

Why are you so concerned whether she is VP?

OK!

FUBush2,
Can you be more specific.

However, I think that was a smoke screen like the campaign debt crap.

You couldn't come out and say I quit because I am offered the VP spot and it would look like Obama was forced to put her on the ticket.

It's would be a lot better if Hillary is out on the campaign trail for a few months pushing for Obama.

Again, what would you think and do if Hillary is selected as the VP.

I thought there were a polls taken in june where many thought that would be a good ticket.
I seem to be all along today.
Thanks

By KvnRJohnso407August 13, 2008 - 2:24pm

I think Hillary is the wrong choice. For her sake and ours.

What is your motive. Do YOU think she needs to be the pick?

Good Question

FUB2,

I have a few motives.

First, to see how Obama supporters would react to clinton on the ticket.

Second, I can't believe she dropped out of the race and not take the thing to the convention.
I know if I had as many supporters as she did I would have taken the fight all the way. I think history back me up on that point. Wouldn't you?
Then why did she drop out of the race. Don't give me that party unity crap.

I wanted to judge who is really running the democratic party and the process because it seems that many of our party leaders don't support the desires of the base. The process doesn't seem political any more.
Thanks for asking

By KvnRJohnso407August 13, 2008 - 2:41pm

She dropped out of the race because it was over and she was (and still is) in debt.

There is no way in hell she is going to challenge the nomination at the convention. If she somehow stole the nomination she would probably get 20% of the vote in November.

The people that voted for her in the primaries are not in her pocket. She can't claim their unending support. She can't tell them who to vote for in November. And she can't claim they will support her challenging Obama at the convention.

People who believe that are more invested in her than they are the nation.

Explain how someone "steals" a nomination.

You cant. Hillary would only get 20% of the vote? Your hatred of Hillary has sent you over the edge.

By hufflarry2000August 13, 2008 - 2:53pm

Obama is the nominee. The people chose him. If the convention occurs and Hillary leaves as the nominee, it will be viewed as stealing the nomination.

And if she does that, she will lose support of a large number of people that voted for her. They are not blind followers in her pocket to bring out in November. And she will lose the majority of support of Obama's voters. And finally more people will come out for McCain form the right if she runs.

So I do believe she would get 20% of the vote if she stole the nomination.

And yet again, as has been proven to you

time and time again, Obama was NOT the choice of the people. Hillary got 300,000 more votes than him. Obama will be the choice of the delegates. You are ready for the looney bin.

She LOST. Get over it.

while(horse == dead) beat();

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

By hufflarry2000August 13, 2008 - 3:10pm

Obama was the choice of the people. You lie all the time about that point. You are a lying little republican operative.

Hillary got 300,000 more votes than him

Huff, for about the 20th time since May:

Primaries and Caucuses are not about popular votes. They are about electing delegates. Obama got more delegates. Live with it.

Just like General Elections, where it's not about popular votes, it's about electing Electors to elect your president. The Founders designed a winner-take-all system, which has served us pretty well over the years all things considered. Unlike Italy, where there are over 100 parties, none of whom can hope to obtain a majority to govern, we have two real parties and the course of political life is fairly stable. I wish we could see the rise of a Progressive Party that favors personal responsibility but reins in on the excesses of the corporate appeasers in the Repug and Democrud parties, but hey, I'll settle for the Democruds if that is not possible.

If you don't like the fact that US elections are about electing people to elect your nominee and your president, excercise your Constitutionally-granted right to petition the government to change the Constitution (at least regarding the General Election) to a popular vote-winner-wins scenario. Good luck. But please stop whining.

I heard that right after Edwards' revelation about his mistress, the Shrillary camp was right off the blocks saying that if Edwards had not been in the Iowa Caucus, Shrill would have won. Unfortunately for Team Shrillary, exit polling in Iowa shows that those who caucused for Edwards mostly had Obama as their second choice. But I am impressed with the speed with which Team Shrill got that propaganda in front of the media. Sounds to me like they are still planning a floor fight in Denver and hoping for a chance to steal the nomination away from the delegate count winner. If that happens I will vote for a Third Party candidate. Not because I hate Hilalry, but becuase over the course of this campaign she has repeatedly demosntrated her lack of good decision-making skills, and she's proven to me that she would say or do anything (including pumping gas for some sticker-shocked cowboy or throwing back shooters, or lying about coming under fire in Bosnia, or even crying) to get her way. These are not qualities I seek in a presidnetial aspirant.

sorry, Huff, she lost. Get over it.

She kept her name on the ballot

Obama's name wasn't even on Michigan's ballot! Hillary wasn't above keeping her name on the ballot though, probably so that people like Huff could claim that she got more votes. What a joke!

Unlike F U Bush 2, I tend to think that HuffLarry is not a Republican operative, but I definitely agree that it's time to move forward. The more divided our party is in November, the easier it will be for the Repugs to steal it. Let bygones be bygones Huff.

Oh, Fuck ME. ENOUGH, KIDS

In case you haven't noticed, the primaries are OVER. We are NOW in the GENERAL ELECTION cycle.

Huff, it really is time to get your tighty-whitey's out of your ass, it's OVER. MOVE ON. CONCENTRATE ON THE COUNTRY, NOT THE PERSON.

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

Wrong on that!!!

"In case you haven't noticed, the primaries are OVER. "
Pookie,
The primaries are a part of the nomination process but it's not over because Obama failed to get enough pledge delegates in the primaries.

His need to maintain super delegate support to win the nomination.

Superdelegate are not binding and could change there mind at the convention.

So for instance, if Edwards was selected in the same conditions obama, what would you think his chances of winning the nomination would be.

Yeah, in the country sex matters, an attack on FISA doesn't.
Thanks

Why does this need to turn into one big PISSING MATCH??!!

If you're pushing for Hillary to be nominated at the convention, fine. Go for it. Then the same courtesy should extended to supporters of Dodd, Gravel, Biden, Kucinich and every other fucking Dem candidate.

"Obama failed to get enough pledge delegates in the primaries. "

He did? That's funny, that's not what I've heard ...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delega...

Delegate Count (2,118 Needed to Win)
State Date Delegates Obama Clinton
Total - 2229.5 1896.5

Super Delegates - 823 463 257

Pledged Delegates - 3434 1766.5 1639.5

What was that? He didn't have enough pledge delegates?

No offense, dude, but ... you are WAY off.

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

Pook has made her point...

I do notice that no one is bitching about the fact that Ron Paul will not be placed in nomination at the Boy Buggerers Cornholevention. Paul has a large and vocal following (I see more Paul signs and stickers here in red red NoCo than I ever do for Crash W.).

The whole Hillary brouhaha is yet one more Weapon of Mass Distraction. And it really kinds makes me sick, to think that Willie and Hillie seem to be doing what they can to get Crash into the Anal Office. Barkeep, what does President McBush have on DRAFT?

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Isn't Ron Paul having his own convention?

Not too far from where the Grand Old Perverts are having theirs? From what I understand, Paul's giving the GOP a run for their money!!

Speaking of yard signs and bumper stickers ... I've seen one Mad Cow yard sign and one bumpersticker ... I've seen a MULTITUDE of Obama yard signs and bumperstickers ... me thinks Mad Cow can toss Connecticut out the window ... good. Maybe he won't sully our pristine state by campaigning here ...

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

Ron Paul is running an alternative convention

just across the river in Minneapolis. He had to move it to a bigger venue, the Target Center, where the T-Wolves embarrass themselves, because he had so many that wanted to attend. I hope he gets some coverage just to embarrass Crash and the gang.

Me thinks Paul's supporters will ENSURE

they get press coverage. If they're willing to go this far, I hardly think they'll let the press get away with ignoring them.

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

Yeah, but that doesn't mean...

That he shouldn't spend LOTS of time and money there, making sure to get his picture taken playing tonsil hockey with Loserschmuck.

COME ON, CRASH! YOU CAN WIN CONNECTICUT! HOO-RAH!

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

LMAO!! Well, on second thought ... you're right!

Spend, baby, SPEND!

McCrash really hasn't done much around here - I think I've seen one ad running on the local tv stations.

It really is amazing how many Obama bumperstickers I see ... well, we've grown up in this part of the country!!

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

Even in far-right North County...

I see more Obama stickers than I do for Crash.

My wife is concerned that there may be vandalism on my car because of my Obama stickers. Sad commentary on this so-called culture war that's been foisted off on us.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Caller to Ed today

told of being verbally assaulted with names like "[N-word} Lover!" due to her Obama stickers. Remember, folks, most NRA members are Repugs, and the policy of the Repug party is to kill anything that disagrees with you--either figuratively or physically. That means that if you display Obama bumper stickers or yard signs, you run the risk of getting shot at. Welcome to our Brave New World.

It's a damned good thing its 2008, huh?

If, in this day and age, people are still this moronic, they deserve to wallow in their blissful and idiotic ignorance. Sad, really.

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
George Carlin

I'll bet

Bill is pulling out all the stops because the Anal Office is the only place he "got some" in the past 16 years...

LMAO

"But Hillie honey, I mean Future President ma'am, we just GOTTA appoint Monica Special White House Council! That'll show PARTY UNITY, if ya know what I mean!"

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

By KvnRJohnso407August 13, 2008 - 2:24pm

campaign debt crap

Are you saying the debt isn't real? I don't think that is what you mean. But in any event it is real.

Agree to Disagree

FUB2,
Yes I don't believe it.

With all the accounting software and consultants around, how could she really manage her campaign in the ground.

That alone should disqualify her as president and VP.

But you have a right to believe that story and there is no real debate on this point.
Thanks

By KvnRJohnso407August 13, 2008 - 2:45pm

You don't believe she is in debt? I should say it's her campaign that is in debt.

It's all accounted for. They are talking about some manner in which they could get around the rules and help her get some of that back.

She ran up a debt for two reasons. People like Mark Penn did a horrible job running her campaign and she didn't take control like she should have. And the second reason was that she was conceited. She thought the nomination was hers from the start. She thought the debt would be recovered after the nomination as she ran the general election.

This arrogance is one reason I didn't support her. Everyone assumed that whenever she decided to run the people would just hand her the nomination.

" People like Mark Penn

" People like Mark Penn "
FUB2,
I hate that guy...what an idiot...not to mention the advice she got from bubba.

I think you make some great points in this note.

But with all that said, she still had almost as many supporters as the FORMER media darling Obama.

Politics is a matter of selecting the best option even if not dealing from the top of the deck,
therefore, I ask what would you do if hillary is selected as the VP.

What do you think Most Obama supporters would do if she was indeed selected as the VP.
Thanks

On the Contrary,

Chimpy Bush drove two companiers into the ground, and that apparently completely qualified him for the governorship of Texas, whcih completely qualified him for the White House, thanks be to Sandy O'Connor.

Geee!!!!

"I am so sick and tired of fanatical Hillary supporters "
Uff,
Did you even read the posts....clearly if you did then there is no way you could come to the conclustion that am a "fanatical Hillary Supporters"
Scary!!!
Thanks

Say What!

"You seem to like Clinton. "
FUBush,
I think I told you in the note who I voted and I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I like clinton(S) when I never voted for her or her husband.

If you missed that point then maybe you need to reconsider or atleast reread my post.
Thanks

By all objective measures, it would be a huge mistake

to pick Hillary as VP.

First of all, a VP has to be ready to take the reins if the president is incapacitated or killed, ready to seamlessly continue the programs and policies of the president. Hillary repeatedly demonstrated during the primaries that she not only doesn't share many of Obama's viewpoints; in fact, she seems to have no respect for them.

Second of all, the VP is someone who is always going to be in the shadow of the president, and if there's one thing you can say about Hillary, she doesn't stand in ANYONE'S shadow.

Third, if Hillary truly does want to press forward on legislation to help the people who supported her during the primaries, the blue collar workers, the elderly and those with little education, her best method of doing so is by staying in the Senate, where she has some actual power. Accepting the VP slot would only prove that her ego trumps her beliefs.

As for voting, I voted for Bill twice, and was always supportive of Hillary. However, she lost, and like most adults, she and her supporters need to accept that and move on. To do anything less than working full throttle to elect Obama and a larger democratic majority in congress will only serve to put Crash McGrandpa into office, assuring that we will have a strongly conservative Supreme Court for decades, and laws enacted that will benefit the rich and destroy everyone else.

Watch and Learn

UFF,
Item 1 - Sound like you are not being objective about hillary based on those comments.

Item 2- That is a valid point of what would Obama do if the clintons are there with him. You see bad things, I see your point, but I see good things also.

Item 3- I really thought it was a mistake for he to run in the first place.. understand where you going there.

Item 4- You was a hillary supporter, so what exactly did she do in the primaries that turn a loyal clinton supporter away?

My question to you, what would you do if Hillary was selected as the VP.
Thank

Let me address Item 4 right off the top

What did she do in the primaries to turn a loyal Clinton supporter away?

Her campaign might as well have been scripted by Rove and the RNC. She lavished praise on McCain over and over again, while heaping scorn on Obama. That is a definite no-no. Everyone beyond the first grade KNEW that videos of her doing that would end up in repub campaign ads. You may disagree with an opponent in your party primary, but for god's sake, don't help the guy in the opposing party by doing so. Repubs have plenty of bad habits and characteristics, but I give them credit for never pulling anything like that. Bill didn't help matters any with a lot of his comments. As a big Bill Clinton fan, I was mighty disappointed by his conduct during the whole thing.

Now we agree on something

"Her campaign might as well have been scripted by Rove and the RNC. She lavished praise on McCain over and over again"
FUB2,
Great point....that why I never voted for the clintons because they are blue dog democrats that have hurt our party in the long run.

I think they are good people and would do a great job running the country ....but I think they are terrible politicians that got lucky in 1992 because of a strong third party candidate.

However, what would you do if I am right and she is selected as VP.
Thanks

Clinton would have beat daddy Bush

without Perot in the race. The economy was in recession and people were tired of right wing policies. Clinton was elected in 2 landslides. How did that hurt the party? Gore and Kerry won the elections due to Clintons successful presidency. You dont know what you are talking about or you are too young to remember the early 90's.

I am Bob Dole Damit!!!

Huff,
I think Bill had a thirty point lead over a terrible candidate like Dole in Oct 96.

In the in, he just got over 50 percent of the vote.

Clinton was always a better president than candidate.
Kevin

It was a 3 way race in 1996 too.

Clinton got 50% of the pop vote and won 383 electoral votes. Dole got 43% of the pop vote. In 1992, Clinton beat a sitting pres 43% to 37% and won 363 electoral votes. I wish that Obama was such a "poor" candidate.

Really!!!

"As to your continued arguments, I haven't read through the whole thread but on first glance it appears you are trying to appear neutral but really you are arguing because in your heart you are still bitter over Hillary's loss. Maybe I'm wrong but either way you are getting worked up over minutia."
FUBush2,
Come on ..... you glanced at my post and jumped to some a conclusion.

Sounds like GW in the Oval office.

I glanced the August report that BinLadin was going to attack america I though it could never happen.

I glanced at the CIA reports on Iraq and the WMD and came to the conclusion that he had them.

Well sir, your conclusion about me and my motives are as wrong as GWs on those critical matters.

Please, take time to read the note and let me know what you think.
Thanks

By KvnRJohnso407August 13, 2008 - 1:58pm

Uhhh

Why don't you explain what your motives are then in a few sentences. SJI answered your question. It just looks like you are all over the board because he disagreed about Clinton being VP.

My understanding of your motives is hardly a great concern to me. So I do not really compare it to the decision to go to war.

Here we go!!!

"Why don't you explain what your motives are then in a few sentences. "
FUB2,
I guess you didn't get my point.

But what is really even more important than the unfairness of not selecting Hillary as the VP, is what would Obama supporters do if indeed she was selected as the VP.

Thanks

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