Training Interrogators to Produce False Confessions

By talkleft

When the Bush administration decided to get into the torture business, it adopted methods used by Chinese interrogators during the Korean War -- despite evidence that the techniques lead to false confessions.

The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of “coercive management techniques” for possible use on prisoners, including “sleep deprivation,” “prolonged constraint,” and “exposure.”

What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners.

In Bushworld, a false confession is better than no confession.

If trainers really didn't know that coercion and torture lead to false confessions, they were seriously negligent in their duty to educate themselves before trying to educate others.

In what critics describe as a remarkable case of historical amnesia, officials who drew on the SERE [Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape] program appear to have been unaware that it had been created as a result of concern about false confessions by American prisoners.

Unaware? Nobody thought to ask where the chart originated?

The 1957 article from which the chart was copied was entitled “Communist Attempts to Elicit False Confessions From Air Force Prisoners of War” and written by Alfred D. Biderman, a sociologist then working for the Air Force, who died in 2003.

Somebody surely knew the chart's origin:

The only change made in the chart presented at Guantánamo was to drop its original title: “Communist Coercive Methods for Eliciting Individual Compliance.”

You'd think the person who dropped the title would have paused to ask how effective the Communist techniques were for arriving at the truth. Senator Carl Levin:

“What makes this document doubly stunning is that these were techniques to get false confessions,” Mr. Levin said. “People say we need intelligence, and we do. But we don’t need false intelligence.”

False intelligence, maybe not, but false confessions come in handy to justify the seizure and detention of innocent people.

Comments

(45)

Huh, Bush never decided to go into the torture

business. Water boarding is the exception, not the rule, and has only been used in rare occasions, to protect American lives, after all else failed.

And why would anyone want false confessions? One class, in enemy interrogation techniques is not the entirety of the course. These techniques where, and probably still are used by opposing forces around the world, so it would be prudent for our side to be knowledgeable regarding these techniques.

Sounds like you people are second guessing matters that you know little of. Or your just purposely misstating the facts, to suit some left wing gotcha agenda.

Why would we want false

Why would we want false confessions? I'll tell you.

Bush doesn't care if the people in Gitmo are guilty or innocent. He just casts as wide a net as possible and scoops up anybody he can in Iraq (including people who were turned in by their neighbors for no other reason that the neighbor didn't like them or they were the wrong sect of Islam). So scoop up as many people as possible, and don't worry about sorting out who's a real terrorist and who isn't, just get 'em all to confess and then give 'em all the death penalty.

It's much easier to get a false confession than to weed out the innocent from the guilty. As we've seen, Bush doesn't give a shit about civil rights. Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out, that's his mentality.

-- McCain = Four more years of the same --

The primary purpose of torture

is to spread fear through a subjugated populace.

In other words, it's a form

In other words, it's a form of terrorism. And if we do it, it's STATE-SPONSORED terrorism.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower

I thought you may like to know the differance's between

Terrorism and war.

Terrorism is "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion."[2] There is no internationally agreed legal definition.[3][4] In one modern definition of terrorism, it is violence against civilians to achieve political or ideological objectives by creating fear.[5] Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants. Some definitions also include acts of unlawful violence and war.

Terrorism is also a form of unconventional warfare and psychological warfare. The word is politically and emotionally charged,[6] and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. One 1988 study by the US Army found that over 100 definitions of the word "terrorism" have been used.[7]. A person who practices terrorism is a terrorist.

Terrorism has been used by a broad array of political organizations in furthering their objectives; both right-wing and left-wing political parties, nationalistic, and religious groups, revolutionaries and ruling governments.[8] The presence of non-state actors in widespread armed conflict has created controversy regarding the application of the laws of war.

An International Round Table on Constructing Peace, Deconstructing Terror (2004) hosted by Strategic Foresight Group recommended that a distinction should be made between terrorism and acts of terror. While acts of terrorism are criminal acts as per the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 and domestic jurisprudence of almost all countries in the world, terrorism refers to a phenomenon including the actual acts, the perpetrators of acts of terrorism themselves and their motives. There is disagreement on definitions of terrorism. However, there is an intellectual consensus globally, that acts of terrorism should not be accepted under any circumstances. This is reflected in all important conventions including the United Nations counter terrorism strategy, the decisions of the Madrid Conference on terrorism, the Strategic Foresight Group and ALDE Round Tables at the European Parliament.

War is any large scale, violent conflict. The conduct of war extends along a continuum, from the almost universal tribal warfare that began well before recorded human history, to wars between city states, nations, or empires. By extension, the word is now used for any struggle, as in the war on drugs or the war on terror. It was once thought humans were the only creatures who fought wars, but closer observation of animal life has discovered wars between ant colonies and chimpanzee tribes.

A group of combatants and their support is called an army on land, a navy at sea, and air force in the air. Wars may be prosecuted simultaneously in one or more different theatres. Within each theatre, there may be one or more consecutive military campaigns. A military campaign includes not only fighting but also intelligence, troop movements, supplies, propaganda, and other components. Continuous conflict is traditionally called a battle, although this terminology is not always fed to conflicts involving aircraft, missiles or bombs alone, in the absence of ground troops or naval forces. A civil war is the use of force to resolve internal differences
Conventional warfare is an attempt to reduce an opponent's military capability. It is a war between nation-states and nuclear or biological weapons are not usually used.
Unconventional warfare is an attempt to achieve military victory through acquiescence, capitulation, or clandestine support for one side of an existing conflict.
Nuclear warfare is a war in which nuclear weapons are used.

Civil war is a war where the forces in conflict belong to the same country or empire or other political entity.
Asymmetric warfare, is a conflict between two populations of drastically different levels of military mechanisation. This type of war often results in guerrilla tactics. Military action produces a very small percentage of air pollution emissions. Intentional air pollution in combat is one of a collection of techniques collectively called chemical warfare. Poison gas as a chemical weapons was principally used during World War I, and resulted in an estimated 91,198 deaths and 1,205,655 injuries.[citation needed] Various treaties have sought to ban its further use. Non-lethal chemical weapons, such as tear gas and pepper spray, are widely used, sometimes with deadly effect

By leftysrsickJuly 2, 2008 - 7:50pm

Wow, you can plagiarize Wikipedia. That's very impressive, but maybe you can learn how to spell "difference"? The correct spelling is actually in your plagiarized Wikipedia entry. Idiot...

George W. & George H.W. Bush - Living proof that the dumbshit doesn't fall far from the dumbass.

Thank you for your cut-and-paste of Wikipedia

And thank you also for explaining why what Cowboy-hat Oathbreaker is doing in Iraq can be classified as "terrorism".

Now go enlist, traitor scum. And take your sock-puppets with you.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

You haven't disproved my

You haven't disproved my point. In fact, you've proven it most emphatically.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower

How so?

You may disagree with the tactics, but we are fighting a war, an differant battlegrounds, Iraq being just one of the battlegrounds. It is warfare we are engaged in. If it were terror, as used by the enemy, we would just blow the whole place up, rebuild, and put our people there. Period. That's the way its been done for thousands of years. We are trying to build a free society in that god forsaken land. The same as in afganistan. It takes time, effort and will. It is now starting to show success. You people seem to want to go back to the old ways of doing things, and are quite slow in recognizing a new type of war strategy.

Ah, but to THEM

...WE are the godless ones. Who's right, and who's wrong, depends entirely on the point of view of the observer.

History is NOT just written by the victors. It is also written by the bystanders. Cowboy-hat Oathbreaker and his PNAC masters need to keep that in mind.

Now go enlist, traitor scum.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

By leftysrsick July 2, 2008 - 1:37pm

Huh, Bush never decided to go into the torture business.
----------------------------
Be still my beating heart. You typed a truth! Unintentional as it may have been.

Of course Bush never decided to go into the torture business.

He's more the type to sit comfy on his cowardly ass and sign orders that plunge America and others into the torture business on his behalf...

And why would anyone want false confessions?
---------------------------
We'll just assume this dittodolt has never heard of Curveball...

Amazing what one can do with false confessions, eh?
Like start murderous, unnecessary wars of choice that were pre-planned long ago...
____________________
The "Dream Ticket" is a Death Trap!
Obama / Sebelius '08

I don't believe it!

This news will make the leftists look upon us as worse than the Chicoms...oh wait. We're SUPPOSEDLY using Chicom methods, and since the international leftist conglomerate views the Chicoms as saviors, then by all logic we should be LOVED by the Leftists!

WE'RE THE SAME AS THE CHICOMS!!!
WE'RE NUMBER 1!!!!!!

Now all we have to do is start beheading women who don't wear their burqas and we can have "City on a Hill" status again! I'll leave that to our first Muslim-Commie-Anarchist president to do that...Hopefully during the Obamessiah's Inaugural Parade.

Pfek-liar and Auburndumb....

... two of the handful of fringe kooks that STILL believe Obama is a Muslim. Shees! What a couple of dumb ass pinheads you two are. I'll remember to ignore all of your worthless posts in the future. Idiots.

You can read?

Wow, I guess you don't have any excuse than,do you?

By leftysrsick July 2, 2008 - 6:06pm

Yeah, CommieKarl... I can read, much better than you can spell.

So, what's your excuse for squandering the free public education you were offered?

By othelloJuly 2, 2008 - 5:49pm

Actually they are sock puppets. It's pretty clear it's the same person writing.

One chicken hawk with multiple handles.

The third sock-puppet is righties(R)sick

...and I'm willing to bet my next meal it's tommycarl.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

OH NO!

We can't torture terrorists!!! Let's just kill em !!!

"Hussein" Omama is not qualified to be a dog catcher!!

It should be painfully obvious, but apparently it isn't

These so-called "harsh interrogation techniques" (read: torture) are USELESS. To defeat them, all the detainee has to do is LIE. Lie creatively, lie often, lie about everything. Even when the detainee finally DOES break, the waters will be so muddy by that point that the interrogators won't be able to tell when the detainee shifts from lying to telling the truth.

But hey...who am I to deny Cowboy-hat Oathbreaker his entertainments? If he wants to waste everyone's time, and even MORE lives, with these idiotic and insane procedures, so be it...let him practice his love. It'll just be one more nail in his coffin when he gets dragged up at The Hague and tried for war crimes.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Obama got discount on home loan

Obama got discount on home loan
Campaign defends lower rate as lender competition for business

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25496822/

So, obama’s a crook? No surprise really – after all, he’s a democratic.

What's a "democratic"?

The only "democratic" in the United States is its form of government...at least, that's what you RepubliCANTs keep trying to tell everyone, as you work to destroy its foundation.

By the way, your sock-puppet already posted this elsewhere, so spamming it here doesn't make it any more true or accurate. Unless, of course, you can post the loan documents in question to support your position. Oh...you can't? Imagine that...

Now go enlist, traitor scum.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Want to go toe-to-toe with

Want to go toe-to-toe with lists of corrupt GOP officials versus Dems guilty of similar offense? C'mon, I've got a huge list of republican crooks.

Go ahead, mention William Jefferson.. I'll raise you a Larry Craig, a Mark Foley, a Ted Haggard, and I'll go all in with a Jack Abramoff.

-- McCain = Four more years of the same --

Chris Dodd

Crook

Say it, Weasler!

PENIS

You can't, can you, you little closet case?

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

It isn't weasler

It's Tommycarl's sock-puppet...one of at least three.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Kent Conrad

Crook

January 31, 2007: Republican

January 31, 2007: Republican Congressman Gary Miller is named by Republicans as ranking member of oversight subcommittee of House Financial Services Committee despite the FBI's investigation into his land deals

February 14, 2007: Major Republican fundraiser Brent Wilkes and former CIA executive director Kyle "Dusty" Foggo are indicted by a grandy jury for corrupting CIA contracts

March 5, 2007: Ethics complaint filed against Republican Senator Pete Domenici for his role in the Attorney Purge scandal

March 6, 2007: I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney found guilty of obstruction of justice and perjury

March 8, 2007: Republican former U.S. Congressman and Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich admits to extramarital affair

March 23, 2007: Former Deputy Interior Secretary J. Steven Griles, an oil and gas lobbyist who became an architect of George W. Bush's energy policies, pleads guilty to obstructing justice by lying to a Senate committee

March 27, 2007: Ronald Reagan's budget director, David Stockman, "indicted on charges of defrauding investors and banks of $1.6 billion while chairman of Collins & Aikman Corp., an auto parts maker that collapsed days after he quit"

April 18, 2007: The FBI raids the home of Republican Congressman John Doolittle, investigating his ties to Jack Abramoff

April 19, 2007: The FBI raids a business tied to the family of Republican Congressman Rick Renzi, as part of an investigation into his business dealings

April 23, 2007: Federal auditors find repeat violations of federal election law from the 2004 Senate campaign of Republican Senator Mel Martinez

Republican Party Chairman Donald Fleischman was charged with two counts of child enticement, two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a child and a single charge of exposing himself to a child.

Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after "sexually explicit" emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy.

Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.

Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

This is too easy...
-- McCain = Four more years of the same --

By its_so_over July 2, 2008 - 2:32pm

You mean to tell me that someone with a quality credit score can get a rate lower than the "average"?

Ya don't say...
____________________
The "Dream Ticket" is a Death Trap!
Obama / Sebelius '08

By SJerseyIndyJuly 2, 2008 - 4:56pm

Wait until he finds out the the wealthy get a higher interest rate from the bank on their savings account! His head will explode.

Oh, shit. Honda gave me a 1%

Oh, shit. Honda gave me a 1% loan because my credit score is 798.
And you dumbasses with credit scores of 550 have to pay 8% interest.
Gee, it must be because I'm cheating, right?
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower

The problems with the Bush

The problems with the Bush all torture all the time policy are as follows:
1. torture is illegal
2. torture does not get the interrogators reliable information
3. our use of torture makes it more likely that others will use torture against Americans
4. torture makes us just like the "evildoers" we are supposedly fighting

Torture it fits in perfectly with the Bush goal of encouraging terrorism here and abroad.

I'm looking forward to obama

inviting terrorists to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom.

Of coarse obama himself is a terrorist so any obama white house will have at least one terrorists in at at all times.

Impeach Obama for Hating America !!!

By its_so_overJuly 2, 2008 - 2:55pm

It's nice to see dumbfucks such as yourself face the inevitable. Obama WILL be the next President of the United States. I really don't see him inviting Dubya to a sleep-over in the Lincoln bedroom, though.

Thank you for your support.

Support the Troops
End the Occupation

Come on, Wease!

SAY IT

WEASLER ♥ PENIS

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

My comment stands

Why bother with torture? Just kill them.

By AuburnDonJuly 2, 2008 - 3:13pm

You're right. Your comment does stand...as a stellar example of typical right-wing stupidity. Congrats!

George W. & George H.W. Bush - Living proof that the dumbshit doesn't fall far from the dumbass.

What about those who aren't

What about those who aren't terrorists at all, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, what about them? Many of them are guilty of nothing more than being the wrong sect of Islam and getting turned in by a neighbor who doesn't like their brand of Islam.

Kill them too?

-- McCain = Four more years of the same --

By dtaylo75July 2, 2008 - 4:03pm

Umm, I'm guessing that comment wasn't supposed to be directed towards me.

Don't forget about the financial aspect in many cases. Those bounties go a long way in Afghanistan while having the added benefit of getting rid of someone that the snitch didn't like anyway.

George W. & George H.W. Bush - Living proof that the dumbshit doesn't fall far from the dumbass.

Ooops, no that wasn't

Ooops, no that wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the idiot who said "Just kill them all".

-- McCain = Four more years of the same --

Well said

Too bad the g0p sheeple-trolls will do their best to shout you down as a "terrorist sympathizer" (if they're feeling kindly).

Torture = stupidity. Stupidity = GW Bush. Therefore, torture = GW Bush.

Only 201 days until this national nightmare called the Bush II presidency comes to an end.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Hummmmmmmmmmmmm

It worked for FDR. When did it stop working? When did it become illigal for the commander in chief to take whatever steps neccesary to protect american lives? By the way, under Bush, three people where water boarded, which you call torture. According to those involved, in each instance, useful intelligence was obtained that saved american lives. If you disagree with that assessment, take it up with George Tenet, who has stated water boarding did save america lives. I suspect he knows more than either me or you on the subject.

By the way, I agree with the FDR/Truman style of fighting the enemy. Fight fire with fire.

Is that all you've got?

Invoke the memory of a president who's been dead for 60 years, and whose administration was one of the most successful?

Nice try, you little sissy. Now go hit the streets and get your mother some customers.

Cowards post and run.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Look at the people McCain associates with.

Remember the other fund raiser that said you should just enjoy rape?

McCain Backer's Firm Pleaded Guilty To Funding Terrorist Group In Colombia
July 2, 2008 03:07 AM
Nico Pitney

The co-host of a recent top-dollar fundraiser for Sen. John McCain oversaw the payment of roughly $1.7 million to a Colombian paramilitary group that is today designated a terrorist organization by the United States.

Carl H. Lindner Jr., the billionaire Cincinnati businessman, was CEO of Chiquita Brands International from 1984 to 2001, and remained on the company's board of directors until May 2002. Beginning under his tenure, Chiquita executives paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (known by the Spanish acronym AUC), which is described by George Washington University's National Security Archive as an "illegal right-wing anti-guerrilla group tied to many of the country's most notorious civilian massacres."

Following a Justice Department indictment last year, Chiquita admitted to illegally funding the paramilitaries and agreed to pay a $25 million fine. Chiquita's payments to the AUC began in 1997 and lasted seven years; roughly half of the funds came after the group was designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the U.S. State Department in 2001.

According to the Justice Department, the payments "were reviewed and approved by senior executives" of Chiquita, who knew by no later than September 2000 "that the AUC was a violent, paramilitary organization."

Late last week, Lindner co-hosted a $25,000-per-person fundraiser for McCain and the Republican Party in the wealthy Indian Hills neighborhood of Cincinnati, Ohio. The event raised about $2 million; Lindner also serves on McCain's Ohio Victory Team.

...

Not to mention...

That clumsy dickhead had FIVE very expensive U.S. Navy warplanes shot out from under him. Is he ever going to pay that back? Destroying military property is an Article 108!

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Mental masturbation is the hobby of this administration

And the damage and destruction BushCo.and its feeble party unleashes erodes the nation every second.

July 3 (Bloomberg) -- When President George W. Bush went to his first Group of Eight summit in 2001, a dominant issue was the dollar -- the strong dollar, that is. The U.S. currency was on a record-setting streak, and the free-marketeering president wasn't going to stand in the way.

On the eve of Bush's last G-8 appearance, the dollar's gyrations are again in the crossfire. This time, it is a weak currency, upended by slumping growth, a housing recession and record gas prices, that is gnawing away at the world economy.

The dollar's 41 percent drop against the euro during Bush's term writes the economic epitaph of an administration that set out to restore American preeminence. Instead, Bush heads to Japan next week for his final international summit with diminished leverage as Russian and Chinese influence grows.

It is always about the money.

Comments

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