Shma Yisroel
J Street, The pro-peace/pro-Israel/pro-Palestine Jewish lobby just released a monster of a poll on American Jewish political attitudes. The takeaway: we're liberal as hell; we hate Bush; we know Bush has been a disaster for Israel; we'll support any peace deal the Israelis make; and the only thing we're uncomfortable with to that end is giving East Jerusalem back to the Palestinians.
Let's go down the line. Seventy-four percent of us view Bush unfavorably and 83 percent of us disapprove of his job performance. While 76 percent of the country as a whole says the U.S. is on the wrong track, an astonishing 90 percent of American Jews say the same. Only 21 percent of us approve of the Iraq war and only 29 percent think Bush is good for Israel, and those are clearly the shmucks that kissed ass in Hebrew school and snitched when the rest of us used the synagogue phone booth and cloakroom to make out or get high.
When asked if the U.S. should or shouldn't actively broker Mideast peace, it broke down 55 percent for U.S. involvement and 30 percent against. J Street, the menschen, took that a step further and examined support for the hard choices piece requires. "Even if it meant the United States publicly stating its disagreements with both the Israelis and the Arabs?" Yes -- 75 percent; no -- 25 percent. "Even if it meant the United States exerting pressure on both Israelis and Arabs to make the compromises necessary for peace?" Yes -- 70 percent; no -- 30 percent.
In terms of negotiating positions for an Arab-Israeli settlement, 59 percent agree that Israel will need to "withdraw from most of the West Bank and dismantle many of the Israeli settlements." Another 58 percent agree that for full peace with Syria -- and an abandonment of their support for Hamas and Hezbollah -- Israel should get out of the Golan. Only 44 percent, though, endorse the statement that Palestinian East Jerusalem should be part of the state of Palestine. And while that's the only non-majority position among American Jews for what can fairly be called the dovish line, 44 percent is still a substantial amount of support.
J Street's poll supports its contention that the attitudes of most of us are far, far out of whack with what this country's self-appointed Jewish leaders -- the Joe Liebermans, the AIPACs, the Sheldon Adelsons, the Commentary magazines -- say we're about and what we're actually about.
- Original article
- FILED UNDER: Guest Blogger
- July 16, 2008








East Jerusalem was never
East Jerusalem was never possessed by "Palestinians", as until recently there were no such people as Arab Palestinians (probably still aren't but who knows they may be able to form into an actual national group given enough time), nor is there anyone to whom it could be given back, except perhaps to the Jewish inhabitants of the area who were kicked out by the Jordanians when they attacked Israel and annexed the area to Jordan (something to which no one, least of all the so called Palestinians, objected) The same is also true of the rest of the disputed territories.
That being said, I, like the rest of the sample am perfectly happy to support any peace settlement that the government of Israel thinks is o.k. After all, I live here, I don't have to deal with all the problems of living there.
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 16, 2008 - 2:13pmThat is simply revisionist
That is simply revisionist history with no basis in fact. The Palestinian people are the Biblical "Phillistines." In fact, the word for Palestinian in Arabic is very close in pronunciation to the word "Phillistine." An the area was called Palestine even when it was run by the Ottoman Turkish empire.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower
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By MichtouJuly 16, 2008 - 2:30pmExcuse me, but the biblical
Excuse me, but the biblical Philistines were wiped out. They had ceased to exist centuries before the Romans re-named Judea - Palestine in 70 C.E.
The current group of people who have decided to adopt the name Palestinian have no connection with the long dead Philistines. The current folks are descended from the Arab invasions of the early middle ages.
Learn some history, would ya!
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 16, 2008 - 4:14pmAnd by the way, a large
And by the way, a large proportion of those people who call themselves "Palestinians" have about as much connection to the scant Arab population of the area prior to the 1940's as you do to native Guamanians.
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 16, 2008 - 4:17pmNot true. That is a
Not true.
That is a revisionist feel-good story made up to excuse the actions of Israel against the native Arabs. There always was a large native Arab population in what is now Israel.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower
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By MichtouJuly 16, 2008 - 5:15pmBy MichtouJuly 16, 2008 - 5:15pm
Who knew that Bullwinkle was the more intelligent one in that pair?
George W. & George H.W. Bush - Living proof that the dumbshit doesn't fall far from the dumbass.
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By Guy FawkesJuly 16, 2008 - 5:19pmMich You know nothing and it
Mich
You know nothing and it shows. The administrative district of Palestine during the Ottoman Empire included all of what is now Israel and Jordan, part of Lebanon and Syria as well as the disputed territories. The whole kit and caboodle was administered from Beirut by Turks (who are not Arabs).
the following is a short history available to anyone at at the website of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/facts%20about%20israel/history/
While you will undoubtedly consider this "revisionist" history, it is factually correct. If need be I could give you numerous references to the work of noted historians and historical documents. By the way, some of the historians to which I would refer you were decidedly Antisemitic, just as you yourself undoubtedly are.
HISTORY: Foreign Domination
1 Apr 2008
Roman rule was followed by centuries of domination by successive foreign powers: Byzantine, Arab, Crusaders, Mamluk, Ottoman and British.
5th century mosaic in the floor of the Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and the Fishes (Israel Antiquities Authority)
5th century mosaic in the floor of the Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and the Fishes (Israel Antiquities Authority)
TIMELINE | BIBLICAL TIMES | SECOND TEMPLE | FOREIGN DOMINATION | STATE OF ISRAEL | PEACE PROCESS | ISRAEL IN MAPS
The Land of Israel became a predominantly Christian country
5th century mosaic in the floor of the Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and the Fishes
5th century mosaic in the floor of the Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and the Fishes (Israel Antiquities Authority)
Church of the Holy Sepulchre, Jerusalem
Church of the Holy Sepulchre, Jerusalem (I. Sztulman)
Byzantine Rule (313-636)
By the end of the 4th century, following Emperor Constantine's adoption of Christianity (313) and the founding of the Byzantine Empire, the Land of Israel had become a predominantly Christian country. Churches were built on Christian holy sites in Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and Galilee, and monasteries were established in many parts of the country.
Jews were deprived of their former relative autonomy, as well as of their right to hold public positions, and were forbidden to enter Jerusalem except on one day of the year (Tisha B'av - ninth of Av) to mourn the destruction of the Temple.
The Persian invasion of 614 was aided by the Jews, who were inspired by messianic hopes of deliverance. In gratitude for their help, they were granted the administration of Jerusalem, an interlude which lasted about three years. Subsequently, the Byzantine army regained the city (629) and again expelled its Jewish inhabitants.
Restrictions against non-Muslims affected Jewish life
Dome of the Rock built by the Ummayad Caliph Abd-el-Malik in the 7th century on the Temple Mount (Haram-esh-Sharif) in Jerusalem
Dome of the Rock built by the Ummayad Caliph Abd-el-Malik in the 7th century on the Temple Mount (Haram-esh-Sharif) in Jerusalem (I. Sztulman)
Arab Rule (636-1099)
The Arab conquest of the Land came four years after the death of Muhammad (632) and lasted more than four centuries, with caliphs ruling first from Damascus, then from Baghdad and Egypt. At the outset, Jewish settlement in Jerusalem resumed, and the Jewish community was granted the customary status of dhimmi (protected non-Muslims), which safeguarded their lives, property, and freedom of worship, in return for payment of special poll and land taxes.
However, subsequent restrictions against non-Muslims (717) affected the Jews' public conduct as well as their religious observances and legal status. The imposition of heavy taxes on agricultural land compelled many to move from rural areas to towns, where their circumstances hardly improved, while increasing social and economic discrimination forced others to leave the country. By the end of the 11th century, the Jewish community in the Land had diminished considerably and had lost some of its organizational and religious cohesiveness.
The Crusaders came from Europe to recover the Holy Land from the infidels
Seal of the Crusader King of Jerusalem
Seal of the Crusader King of Jerusalem (Israel Antiquities Authority)
The Crusaders (1099-1291)
For the next 200 years, the country was dominated by the Crusaders who, following an appeal by Pope Urban II, came from Europe to recover the Holy Land from the infidels. In July 1099, after a five-week siege, the knights of the First Crusade and their rabble army captured Jerusalem, massacring most of the city's non-Christian inhabitants. Barricaded in their synagogues, the Jews defended their quarter, only to be burned to death or sold into slavery.
During the next few decades, the Crusaders extended their power over the rest of the country, partly through treaties and agreements, but mostly by bloody military victories. The Latin Kingdom of the Crusaders was that of a conquering minority confined mainly to fortified cities and castles.
When the Crusaders opened up transportation routes from Europe, pilgrimages to the Holy Land became popular and, at the same time, increasing numbers of Jews sought to return to their homeland. Documents of the period indicate that 300 Rabbis from France and England arrived in a group, some settling in Acre (Akko), others in Jerusalem.
Following the overthrow of the Crusaders by a Muslim army under Saladin (1187), the Jews were again accorded a certain measure of freedom, including the right to live in Jerusalem. Although the Crusaders regained a foothold in the country after Saladin's death (1193), their presence was limited to a network of fortified castles.
Crusader authority in the Land ended after a final defeat (1291) by the Mamluks, a Muslim military class which had come to power in Egypt.
A backwater province ruled from Damascus
Mamluk Rule (1291-1516)
The Land under the Mamluks became a backwater province ruled from Damascus. Acre, Jaffa, and other ports were destroyed for fear of new crusades, and maritime as well as overland commerce was interrupted. By the end of the Middle Ages, the country's towns were virtually in ruins, most of Jerusalem was abandoned, and the small Jewish community was poverty-stricken.
The period of Mamluk decline was darkened by political and economic upheavals, plagues, locusts, and devastating earthquakes.
Medieval backwardness gradually gave way to the first signs of progress
Theodor Herzl
Theodor Herzl (Central Zionist Archives)
Ottoman Rule (1517-1917)
Following the Ottoman conquest in 1517, the Land was divided into four districts, attached administratively to the province of Damascus and ruled from Istanbul. At the outset of the Ottoman era, some 1,000 Jewish families lived in the country, mainly in Jerusalem, Nablus (Shechem), Hebron, Gaza, Safed (Tzfat) and the villages of Galilee. The community was comprised of descendants of Jews who had always lived in the Land, as well as immigrants from North Africa and Europe.
Orderly government, until the death (1566) of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent, brought improvements and stimulated Jewish immigration. Some newcomers settled in Jerusalem, but the majority went to Safed where, by the mid-16th century, the Jewish population had risen to about 10,000, and the town had become a thriving textile center as well as the focus of intense intellectual activity.
During this period, the study of Kabbala (Jewish mysticism) flourished, and contemporary clarifications of Jewish law, as codified in the Shulhan Arukh, spread throughout the Diaspora from the houses of study in Safed.
With a gradual decline in the quality of Ottoman rule, the country suffered widespread neglect. By the end of the 18th century, much of the Land was owned by absentee landlords and leased to impoverished tenant farmers, and taxation was as crippling as it was capricious. The great forests of Galilee and the Carmel mountain range were denuded of trees; swamp and desert encroached on agricultural land.
The 19th century saw medieval backwardness gradually give way to the first signs of progress, with various Western powers jockeying for position, often through missionary activities. British, French, and American scholars launched studies of biblical archeology; Britain, France, Russia, Austria, and the United States opened consulates in Jerusalem. Steamships began to ply regular routes to and from Europe; postal and telegraphic connections were installed; the first road connecting Jerusalem and Jaffa was built. The Land's rebirth as a crossroads for commerce of three continents was accelerated by the opening of the Suez Canal.
Consequently, the situation of the country's Jews slowly improved, and their numbers increased substantially. By mid-century, overcrowded conditions within the walled city of Jerusalem motivated the Jews to build the first neighborhood outside the walls (1860) and, in the next quarter century, to add seven more, forming the nucleus of the new city. By 1870, Jerusalem had an overall Jewish majority. Land for farming was purchased throughout the country; new rural settlements were established; and the Hebrew language, long restricted to liturgy and literature, was revived. The stage was set for the founding of the Zionist movement.
Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, derives its name from the word "Zion", the traditional synonym for Jerusalem and the Land of Israel. The idea of Zionism - the redemption of the
Jewish people in its ancestral homeland - is rooted in the continuous longing for and deep attachment to the Land of Israel, which have been an inherent part of Jewish existence in the Diaspora through the centuries.
Political Zionism emerged in response to continued oppression and persecution of Jews in Eastern Europe and increasing disillusionment with the emancipation in Western Europe, which had neither put an end to discrimination nor led to the integration of Jews into local societies. It found formal expression in the establishment of the Zionist Organization (1897) at the First Zionist Congress, convened by Theodor Herzl in Basel, Switzerland. The Zionist movement's program contained both ideological and practical elements aimed at promoting the return of Jews to the Land; facilitating the social, cultural, economic, and political revival of Jewish national life; and attaining an internationally recognized, legally secured home for the Jewish people in its historic homeland, where Jews would be free from persecution and able to develop their own lives and identity.
Inspired by Zionist ideology, two major influxes of Jews from Eastern Europe arrived in the country at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th centuries. Resolved to restore their homeland by tilling the soil, these pioneers reclaimed barren fields, built new settlements and laid the foundations for what would become a thriving agricultural economy.
The new arrivals faced extremely harsh conditions: the attitude of the Ottoman administration was hostile and oppressive; communications and transportation were rudimentary and insecure; swamps bred deadly malaria; and the soil had suffered from centuries of neglect. Land purchases were restricted, and construction was banned without a special permit obtainable only in Istanbul. While these difficulties hampered the country's development, they did not stop it. At the outbreak of World War I (1914), the Jewish population in the Land numbered 85,000, as compared to 5,000 in the early 1500s.
In December 1917, British forces under the command of General Allenby entered Jerusalem, ending 400 years of Ottoman rule. The Jewish Legion, with three battalions comprising thousands of Jewish volunteers, was an integral unit of the British army.
In July 1922, the League of Nations entrusted Great Britain with the Mandate for Palestine
Sir Herbert Samuel, first British High Commissioner for Palestine
Sir Herbert Samuel, first British High Commissioner for Palestine
British Rule (1918-1948)
In July 1922, the League of Nations entrusted Great Britain with the Mandate for Palestine (the name by which the country was then known). Recognizing the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine, Great Britain was called upon to facilitate the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine-Eretz Israel (Land of Israel). Two months later, in September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations and Great Britain decided that the provisions for setting up a Jewish national home would not apply to the area east of the Jordan River, which constituted three fourths of the territory included in the Mandate and eventually became the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
Immigration
Motivated by Zionism and encouraged by British sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations, as communicated by Foreign Secretary Lord Balfour (1917), successive waves of immigrants arrived in the Land between 1919 and 1939, each contributing to different aspects of the developing Jewish community. Some 35,000 who came between 1919 and 1923, mainly from Russia, strongly influenced the community's character and organization for years to come.
These pioneers laid the foundations of a comprehensive social and economic infrastructure, developed agriculture, established unique communal and cooperative forms of rural settlement - the kibbutz and moshav - and provided the labor force for building houses and roads.
The next influx of some 60,000, which arrived primarily from Poland between 1924 and 1932, was instrumental in developing and enriching urban life. These immigrants settled mainly in Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jerusalem, where they established small businesses, construction firms, and light industry.
The last major wave of immigration before World War II, comprising some 165,000, took place in the 1930s following Hitler's rise to power in Germany. The newcomers, many of whom were professionals and academics, constituted the first large-scale influx from Western and Central Europe. Their education, skills, and experience raised business standards, improved urban and rural amenities, and broadened the community's cultural life.
Administration
The British Mandate authorities granted the Jewish and Arab communities the right to run their own internal affairs. Utilizing this right, the Jewish community, known as the Yishuv, elected (1920) a self-governing body based on party representation, which met annually to review its activities and elect the National Council (Vaad Leumi) to implement its policies and programs. Financed by local resources and funds raised by world Jewry, a countrywide network of educational, religious, health, and social services was developed and maintained. In 1922, as stipulated in the Mandate, a 'Jewish Agency' was constituted to represent the Jewish people vis-a-vis the British authorities, foreign governments, and international organizations.
Evaporation pools of the Sodom Potash Factory
Evaporation pools of the Sodom Potash Factory (GPO/Z.Kluger)
Economic Development
During the three decades of the Mandate, agriculture was expanded; factories were established; new roads were built throughout the country; the waters of the Jordan River were harnessed for production of electric power; and the mineral potential of the Dead Sea was tapped.
The Histadrut (General Federation of Labor) was founded (1920) to advance workers' welfare and provide employment by setting up cooperatively-owned enterprises in the industrial sector as well as marketing services for the agricultural settlements.
Culture
Day by day, a cultural life was emerging which would become unique to the Jewish community in the Land of Israel. Art, music, and dance developed gradually with the establishment of professional schools and studios. Galleries and halls provided venues for exhibitions and performances attended by a discriminating public. The opening of a new play, the appearance of a new book, or a retrospective show by a local painter were immediately scrutinized by the press and became the subject of lively discussion in coffee houses and at social gatherings.
The Hebrew language was recognized as an official language of the country, alongside English and Arabic, and was used on documents, coins, and stamps, as well as for radio broadcasting. Publishing proliferated, and the country emerged as the world center of Hebrew literary activity. Theaters of various genres opened their doors to enthusiastic audiences, accompanied by first attempts to write original Hebrew plays.
A member of an underground defense organization hiding rifles, 1947
A member of an underground defense organization hiding rifles, 1947 (GPO/H.Pinn)
Arab Opposition and British Restrictions
The Jewish national revival and the community's efforts to rebuild the country were strongly opposed by Arab nationalists. Their resentment erupted in periods of intense violence (1920, 1921, 1929, 1936-39), when unprovoked attacks were launched against the Jewish population, including the Hebron Massacre of 1929, as well as the harassment of Jewish transport, and the burning of fields and forests. Attempts to reach a dialogue with the Arabs, undertaken early in the Zionist endeavor, were ultimately unsuccessful, polarizing Zionism and Arab nationalism into a potentially explosive situation.
Recognizing the opposing aims of the two national movements, the British recommended (1937) dividing the country into two states, one Jewish and one Arab, to be linked by an economic union. The Jewish leadership accepted the idea of partition and empowered the Jewish Agency to negotiate with the British government in an effort to reformulate various aspects of the proposal. The Arabs were uncompromisingly against any partition plan.
Continuing large-scale Arab anti-Jewish riots led Britain (May 1939) to issue a White Paper imposing drastic restrictions on Jewish immigration, despite its consequence of denying European Jewry a place of refuge from Nazi persecution.
The start of World War II soon after caused David Ben-Gurion, later Israel's first prime minister, to declare: We will fight the war as if there were no White Paper, and the White Paper as if there were no war.
Three Jewish underground movements operated during the British Mandate period. The largest was the Haganah, founded in 1920 by the Jewish community as a defense militia to safeguard the security of the Jewish population. From the mid-1930s, it also retaliated following Arab attacks and responded to British restrictions on Jewish immigration with mass demonstrations and sabotage. The Etzel, organized in 1931, rejected the self-restraint of the Haganah and initiated independent actions against both Arab and British targets. The smallest and most militant group, the Lehi, was set up in 1940. The three organizations were disbanded with the establishment of the Israel Defense Forces in June 1948.
Six million Jews, including 1.5 million children, were murdered by the Nazis
The Yellow Patch which the Nazis forced Jews to wear
The Yellow Patch which the Nazis forced Jews to wear
Jewish recruits in a British army camp
Jewish recruits in a British army camp (GPO/Z.Kluger)
The Holocaust
During World War II (1939-45), the Nazi regime deliberately carried out a systematic plan to liquidate the Jewish community of Europe, in the course of which some six million Jews, including 1.5 million children, were murdered. As the Nazi armies swept through Europe, Jews were savagely persecuted, subjected to torture and humiliation, and herded into ghettos, where attempts at armed resistance led to even harsher measures. From the ghettos they were transported to camps where a fortunate few were put to hard labor, but most were either shot in mass executions or put to death in gas chambers.
Not many managed to escape. Some fled to other countries, a few joined the partisans, and others were hidden by non-Jews who did so at risk of their own lives. Consequently, only one third, including those who had left Europe before the war, survived out of a population of almost nine million, which had once constituted the largest and most vibrant Jewish community in the world.
After the war, Arab opposition led the British to intensify the British intensified their restrictions on the number of Jews permitted to enter and settle in the Land. The Jewish community responded by instituting a wide network of "illegal immigration" activities to rescue Holocaust survivors. Between 1945 and 1948, some 85,000 Jews were brought to the Land by secret, often dangerous routes, in spite of a British naval blockade and border patrols set up to intercept the refugees before they reached the country. Those who were caught were interned in detention camps on the island of Cyprus, or returned to Europe.
Jewish volunteers in World War II: Over 26,000 men and women of the Jewish community in the Land volunteered to join the British forces in the fight against Nazi Germany and its Axis allies, serving in the army, air force, and navy. In September 1944, following a prolonged effort by the Jewish Agency in the country and the Zionist movement abroad to achieve recognition of the participation of the Jews of Palestine in the war effort, the Jewish Brigade was formed as an independent military unit of the British Army, with its own flag and emblem. Comprised of some 5,000 men, the brigade saw action in Egypt, northern Italy and northwest Europe.
After the Allied victory in Europe (1945), many of its members joined the "illegal immigration" efforts to bring Holocaust survivors to the Land of Israel.
On 29 November 1947, the UN General Assembly voted to partition the land into two states
Spontaneous celebration in Tel Aviv, 29 November 1947
Spontaneous celebration in Tel Aviv, 29 November 1947 (GPO/H.Pinn)
Map of Partition Plan 1947 (U.N. Resolution 181)
Partition Plan 1947 (U.N. Resolution 181)
The Road to Independence
Britain's inability to reconcile the conflicting demands of the Jewish and Arab communities led the British government to request that the 'Question of Palestine' be placed on the agenda of the United Nations General Assembly (April 1947). As a result, a special committee was constituted to draft proposals concerning the country's future. On 29 November 1947, the Assembly voted to adopt the committee's recommendation to partition the land into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. The Jewish community accepted the plan; the Arabs rejected it.
Listen to UN vote
Following the UN vote, local Arab militants, aided by random volunteers from Arab countries, launched violent attacks against the Jewish community in an effort to frustrate the partition resolution and prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. After a number of setbacks, the Jewish defense organizations routed most of the attacking forces, taking hold of the entire area which had been allocated for the Jewish state.
On 14 May 1948, when the British Mandate came to an end, the Jewish population in the Land numbered some 650,000, comprising an organized community with well-developed political, social and economic institutions - in fact, a nation in every sense and a state in everything but name.
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 16, 2008 - 5:45pmScrolled.
A set of links would have sufficed. Or were you afraid to post the links for fear of it being learned your entire swipe-and-slap came from Wikipedia?
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith
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By nonexistent manJuly 16, 2008 - 5:53pmHe did provide a link at the
He did provide a link at the top. It comes from an Israeli government office.
It doesn't disprove what I said.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower
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By MichtouJuly 16, 2008 - 6:19pmPalestine will be Judenrein
So... over a million Arabs live inside Israel as Israeli citizens. Under the Palestinian "Peace Plan", Jews would be deported from "Palestine", which would then be declared "Judenrein".
Real peace-loving people there, the Arabs are planning to do to the Jews what the Jews have not done to the Arabs in 60 years.
Meir Kahane turns out to be right all along, just deport them to Jordan, which was the real Palestinian homeland all along
http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/
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By GnarlodiousJuly 16, 2008 - 5:44pmMost of the Arab world
Most of the Arab world evicted their Jewish populations following the establishment of the State of Israel. Why is it that no one ever think those refugees should be compensated or allowed to return to their ancestral homelands? Jews lived in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Lybia, etc.... for centuries, even as far back as pre-Roman times. It is just the typical double standard.
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 16, 2008 - 5:52pmThere still are plenty of
There still are plenty of Jews in Arab countries.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower
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By MichtouJuly 16, 2008 - 6:16pmArab nations have evicted Jews for 60 years...
I'm afraid you have been influenced by propaganda. There aren't hardly any Jews remaining in Arab countries. In some cases they can leave if they abandon everything they own, including Jewish texts and libraries. A few small enclaves are held against their will as sort of "friendly hostages", to prove to the world that their host nations are fair to Jews (or as trump cards against Israel). They too, like so many Jews in the "civilized world" are convinced that Israel is evil and racist by propaganda fed them by their government.
http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/
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By GnarlodiousJuly 16, 2008 - 6:30pmGnarl People like Mich do
Gnarl
People like Mich do not care for facts. They will never be swayed by reason. Truth is a foreign concept to them. Usually they are the same folks who believe everything they hear on Faux News or its equivalents.
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 16, 2008 - 6:39pmJust because you don't like
Just because you don't like what I say doesn't mean that I don't care for facts or will not be swayed by reason. You need to look in a mirror, because you're getting so emotional you aren't thinking straight. Usually that means you have an agenda that is so dear to you that you aren't able to accept that there are possibly facts out there that disagree with your world view.
I'm a liberal. Why would I be swayed by Faux News?
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower
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By MichtouJuly 16, 2008 - 7:03pmMich
Mich
You aren't a liberal. Being a real liberal requires to much effort for you. Real liberals have to learn and understand history, accept that there are different positions (even misinformed ones like yours), be able to differentiate between truth and fiction, be able to understand when you are being led astray and why. No, you are the type of person who likes to feel that he is liberal so you pretend to support liberal causes while continuing to wallow in wilfull ignorance.
Of course you are swayed by Faux News. In this instance your fake news and information is being supplied by Arab propagandists instead of Fox News.
Even our beloved AAR hosts occasionally mis-speak and intentionally or unintentionally supply incorrect information. The "news service" used by AAR is often less than completely accurate. That doesn't mean you should stop listening, only that you should get your information from a variety of sources and evaluate each one for accuracy.
If you prefer Arab sources, I can give them to you. Unfortunately most of them are pre-Israeli Independence. After Israeli Independence and particularly after 1967 the Arabs changed their narrative. Consistency over time, is a good indication that the position may have merit. The Israeli story has not changed, the Arabs change frequently for political advantage. Don't be fooled.
And by the way, you will find that most of us who know history and support Israel are also fine with yet another "Palestinian" state being created. Why? Because we don't really care if there is one "Palestinian" State (as Jordan is today) or two , or three, or four, or a dozen, as long as they live in peace with Israel, stop bombing Israeli towns and villages, stop sending terrorists into Israel, stop kidnapping Israeli's, stop trying to eradicate Israel, etc... It would also be nice if they woke up one day and realized that their troubles stem from the actions of their Arab brothers and not the Israelis. But that is probably asking too much.
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 17, 2008 - 4:20pmI'm not denying that Jews
I'm not denying that Jews left Arab countries. They started long before 1948 to migrate to Palestine.
I did some research and I was wrong about "plenty" of Jews being in Arab countries. I seriously doubt that they are being held hostage, as you claim.
You have been influenced by propaganda.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower
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By MichtouJuly 16, 2008 - 7:00pmAmerica
Should we then return America to the Native Americans?
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By Hillary-McCain-08July 17, 2008 - 9:55amIf you follow the reasoning
If you follow the reasoning of the Arab propagandists the answer is an unqualified yes.
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 17, 2008 - 4:22pmIsraeli Arabs enjoy the only true Middle Eastern democracy
I would like to point out that of the million Arabs who are Israeli citizens, about half are still living on the ancestral land in their original villages. These are the ones who rejected the Arab propaganda and accepted Israeli citizenship. They did not fight in the many wars and so their land was not confiscated and they did not end up as refugees. At some point, those refugees need to admit their mistake.
Today, Israeli Arabs enjoy the only true Middle Eastern democracy any Arabs are living in. They have parliamentary representation and enjoy food subsidies and welfare just like any Jewish citizen.
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By GnarlodiousJuly 17, 2008 - 4:38pmHow many Jews is too many?
I understand that for some people, "There still are plenty of Jews in Arab countries" means exactly that. More than there already are would be too many, and they would require thinning out. The language identifies them every time ;=)
So yeah, I'm a pro Israel liberal Jew.
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By GnarlodiousJuly 16, 2008 - 6:59pmGnarl It is rather easy to
Gnarl
It is rather easy to spot the antisemitic dumb dumbs, isn't it?
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 17, 2008 - 4:24pmIt's so much easier to call
It's so much easier to call someone anti-Semitic than it is to look at your own world view critically and analytically, and maybe admit that other people maybe have a legitimate gripe?
I'm 1/4 Jewish. My family hid Jewish children in Belgium during WW2. You know nothing about me at all. You think that anything critical of ISRAEL is anti-Semitism. Israel is a country, not a religion, not a race.
Get over yourself.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower
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By MichtouJuly 17, 2008 - 8:11pmBut...but...but...
...but Israel NEEDS a nanny state! It can't survive on its own, not even after almost 60 years! Without the aid of the United States, it would be overrun by those evil Brown People!
Too bad, so sad. Why don't we just declare Israel a US territory, like Puerto Rico or Guam? Maybe that way we could get a bit of tax revenue out of them as well! Oh, wait, AIPAC would shoot down any such attempt, and there are a LOT of Congresscritters in AIPAC's hip pocket, including Billary and LIEberman. Don't believe me? Check the Senate voting record.
Israel's a money pit with a lot of political clout in the US. How it ever was allowed to get that way is beyond the scope of logic to analyze.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith
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By nonexistent manJuly 17, 2008 - 10:14pmMich You are not Jewish.
Mich
You are not Jewish. There is only Jewish and not Jewish. There is no 1/2 Jewish, 1/4 Jewish, 1/8 Jewish, etc... Technically you can be Jewish and anti-Israel, and you can be Jewish and be anti-Semitic, which if you were Jewish you would be. However you can't be part Jewish. Saying you are 1/4 Jewish is like saying you are 1/4 pregnant.
Let me know if you want Arab academic and political sources which say the exact same thing as the State of Israel Website concerning the pre-1948 history of the area. I'll see what I can do for you.
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By RocketjsquirellJuly 18, 2008 - 4:46pmIs that according to
...Orthodox, Moderate or Reform Judaism?
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith
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By nonexistent manJuly 19, 2008 - 12:13amYoui're an idiot. I already
Youi're an idiot. I already admitted I was wrong.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower
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By MichtouJuly 17, 2008 - 4:36pmtesting
testing
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By GnarlodiousJuly 16, 2008 - 6:56pm