Comes As No Surprise We’re Destablized

By Spencer Ackerman

Via reader Macaquakerman, Talat Massoud -- a member in good standing of the Pakistani military establishment -- has an instructive piece in the Daily Times that tells us what U.S. foreign policy looks like in Islamabad.

From the US perspective the immediate threat of Islamic radicalism rests along the Pak-Afghan border; the Iranian nuclear danger could be dealt with at a more opportune moment. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has also been saying that Iraq is the wrong war and Afghanistan the right one. It would not be long before the US decides to terminate the war in Iraq and declare Afghanistan and Pakistan as the epicentres of the global war on terrorism.

Clearly, any such move will inflame passions in Pakistan. Anti-American sentiments will rise exponentially. The civilian government would be destabilised and moderate forces will be further marginalised. For the Taliban and Al Qaeda this would be an ideal situation.

I'd weigh in on this but right now I have to finish up today's Crappy Hour with Megan before my imminent flight to Austin for Netroots Nation. I'll be in the air when it goes live, but click through after 10 a.m. to see us talk about Jesse Jackson and some other shit.

Comments

(105)

Iraqis think Obama's withdrawal plan is stupid.

BAGHDAD — A tough Iraqi general, a former special operations officer with a baritone voice and a barrel chest, melted into smiles when asked about Senator Barack Obama.

“Everyone in Iraq likes him,” said the general, Nassir al-Hiti. “I like him. He’s young. Very active. We would be very happy if he was elected president.”

But mention Mr. Obama’s plan for withdrawing American soldiers, and the general stiffens.

“Very difficult,” he said, shaking his head. “Any army would love to work without any help, but let me be honest: for now, we don’t have that ability.”

Thus in a few brisk sentences, the general summed up the conflicting emotions about Mr. Obama in Iraq, the place outside America with perhaps the most riding on its relationship with him.

There was, as Mr. Obama prepared to visit here, excitement over a man who is the anti-Bush in almost every way: a Democrat who opposed a war that many Iraqis feel devastated their nation. And many in the political elite recognize that Mr. Obama shares their hope for a more rapid withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.

But his support for troop withdrawal cuts both ways, reflecting a deep internal quandary in Iraq: for many middle-class Iraqis, affection for Mr. Obama is tempered by worry that his proposal could lead to chaos in a nation already devastated by war. Many Iraqis also acknowledge that security gains in recent months were achieved partly by the buildup of American troops, which Mr. Obama opposed and his presumptive Republican opponent, Senator John McCain, supported.

“In no way do I favor the occupation of my country,” said Abu Ibrahim, a Western-educated businessman in Baghdad, “but there is a moral obligation on the Americans at this point.”

Like many Iraqis, Mr. Ibrahim sees Mr. Obama favorably, describing him as “much more humane than Bush or McCain.”

“He seems like a nice guy,” Mr. Ibrahim said. But he hoped that Mr. Obama’s statements about a relatively fast pullout were mere campaign talk.

“It’s a very big assumption that just because he wants to pull troops out, he’ll be able to do it,” he said. “The American strategy in the region requires troops to remain in Iraq for a long time.”

It is not certain exactly when Mr. Obama will arrive here or whom he will meet. Such official trips are always shrouded in secrecy for security reasons.

But as word spread of the impending visit — Mr. Obama’s first as the presumed Democratic nominee for president — there were fresh reminders of the country’s vulnerability. In the past two days, around 70 Iraqis were killed in suicide bomb attacks, despite recent gains in safety that Mr. Obama uses as one argument for withdrawal.

And despite those improvements, street interviews remain risky in Iraq. For this article, 18 people were interviewed about their opinions of Mr. Obama, in Baghdad, in the northern city of Mosul, in the holy Shiite city of Najaf, and in the Sunni suburb of Abu Ghraib, west of Baghdad.

Even as some Iraqis disagreed about Mr. Obama’s stance on withdrawal, they expressed broad approval for him personally as an improvement over Mr. Bush, who remains unpopular among broad portions of Iraqi society five years after the war began. No one interviewed expressed a strong dislike for Mr. Obama.

Saad Sultan, an official in an Iraqi government ministry, contended that Mr. Obama could give a fresh start to relations between the Arab world and the United States. Mr. Obama has never practiced Islam; his father, whom he barely knew, was born Muslim, but became a nonbeliever. Mr. Sultan, however, like many Iraqis, feels instinctively close to the senator because he heard that he had Muslim roots.

“Every time I see Obama I say: ‘He’s close to us. Maybe he’ll see us in a different way,’ ” Mr. Sultan said. “I find Obama very close to my heart.”

Race is also a consideration. Muhammad Ahmed Kareem, 49, an engineer from Mosul, said he had high expectations of Mr. Obama because his experience as a black man in America might give him more empathy for others who feel oppressed by a powerful West. “Blacks suffered a lot of discrimination, much like Arabs,” Mr. Kareem said. “That’s why we expect that his tenure will be much better.”

But Mr. Obama also frames the sometimes contradictory feelings Iraqis have about America as the withdrawal of troops has moved closer to the political mainstream in both countries. Already, the units brought in for the so-called surge last year have left, and the Bush administration has in recent days acknowledged the need both to transfer troops from Iraq to an ever-more-volatile Afghanistan and to recognize that a broader withdrawal is an “aspirational goal” for Iraqis.

Mr. Obama has advocated a withdrawal that would remove most combat troops from Iraq within 16 months of taking office. Despite some fears about such a departure, that stance is not unpopular here. Many Iraqis hate American forces because soldiers have killed their relatives and friends, and they say they want the troops out.

“Of course I want the American forces to leave Iraq,” said May Adnan Yunis, whose sister was killed, along with a female and a male co-worker, when they were gunned down by American soldiers while driving to work at Baghdad International Airport three weeks ago. “I want them to go to hell.”

After the killings, a statement by the American military describing the three employees as “criminals” who shot at the soldiers inflamed Iraqi officials even more. In a rare public rebuke of the American military, the Iraqi armed forces general command described the American soldiers’ actions as crimes “committed in cold blood.”

For General Hiti, who commands a swath of western Baghdad, the American military is a necessary, if vexing, presence. He ticks off the ways it helps: evacuating wounded Iraqi soldiers, bringing in helicopters when things go wrong, defusing bombs, getting detailed pictures of areas from drone planes.

But the issue of withdrawal is immensely complex, and some of the functions mentioned by General Hiti would not be affected under Mr. Obama’s plan. The senator is calling for the withdrawal of combat brigades, but has said a residual force would still pursue extremist militants, protect American troops and train Iraqi security forces.

In negotiations on the future troop presence, both sides were initially focused on concluding a long-term security agreement. But the Iraqi government is now rejecting that and has focused solely on a temporary agreement to begin next year after the United Nations mandate that serves as the legal basis for the American military presence expires.

For weeks American officials had insisted that widespread Iraqi objections to the long-term pact were merely overheated words from Iraqi politicians. Now, they acknowledge that they underestimated Iraqis’ fears of acquiescing to what the Iraqis see as a colonial relationship that would allow American forces to indefinitely operate permanent bases under special laws.

“The Iraqis have a real political issue here,” said one American official, who said the Iraqis viewed any deal that would replicate the broad powers Americans now have “as a scarlet letter.”

But for some Iraqis the American presence remains the backbone of security in the neighborhood. Saidiya, a southern Baghdad district, was so brutalized by violence a year ago that a young Iraqi television reporter who fled thought he would never come back. But a telephone call from his father in December persuaded him to return. An American unit had planted itself in the district, helping chase away radicals. The family could go out shopping. They could drive their car to the gas station.

“The Americans paved the way for the Iraqi Army there,” said the young man, who married this year. “If they weren’t there, the Iraqi forces could not have taken control.” Even so, he agreed with Mr. Obama’s plan for a faster withdrawal. American forces “helped the Iraqi Army to get back its dignity,” he said. “They are qualified now.”

But Iraq is now a complex landscape. Some areas are subdued, and others are still racked by violence and calibrating troop presence will be tricky.

Falah al-Alousy is the director of an organization that runs a school in an area south of Baghdad that was controlled by religious extremists two years ago. Former insurgents turned against the militant group, but local authorities still rely heavily on Americans to keep the peace; the Iraqi Army, largely Shiite, is not allowed to patrol in the area, Mr. Alousy said.

“Al Qaeda would rearrange itself and come back, if the Americans withdraw,” he said. As for Mr. Obama’s plan for withdrawal, “It’s just propaganda for an election.”

Most Iraqis dislike the fact that their country is occupied, but a few well-educated Iraqis who have traveled abroad say they would not oppose a permanent American military presence, something that Mr. Obama opposes. Saad Sultan, the Iraqi government official, said his travels in Germany, where there have been American bases since the end of World War II, softened his attitude toward a long-term presence. “I have no problem to have a camp here,” he said. “I find it in Germany and that’s a strong country. Why not in Iraq?”

Reporting was contributed by Alissa J. Rubin, Mohammed Hussein, Riyadh Muhammad, Anwar J. Ali and Suadad al-Salhy from Baghdad, and an Iraqi employee of The New York Times from Mosul.
More Articles in World »

Only a repub would think that 5 years of failure means victory

and that we should follow it up with an indefinite committment to extend our failure.

The Iraqis have received billions of dollars of training and equipment, and they have been trained by US and multinational forces for 4 years now. Still, they don't have a military or police force capable of securing their own country. How long does it take to train a US soldier? 4 years? Nope. In 4 years we could train and equip a far larger and more effective force than we have produced in Iraq. Just as the war itself was a failure, and the rebuilding of the infrastructure was a failure, so has the rebuilding of the Iraqi military been a failure. It's time to get out and make them stand on their own two feet for a change.

Repubs are always whining that the Katrina victims have had enough assistance and should be able to take care of themselves now, and that only happened 3 years ago. Why do we feel we need to give permanant assistance to Iraqis when we feel that 3 years is too long to help our own people? Why do repubs hate the American people?

Stay the Course!

No, wait, that was NEVER our motto...ir was "surge Forward!" No, it was "A Thousand Points of Light!" (or was that "Five thousand dead Americans?").

Just like in Vietnam, 1970s Iran, and Somoza's Nicaragua, the US is once again backing the wrong horse. The repressive dictator who sides with us. When we shift the epicenter of the "War on Terror" to Pakistan, it will mean the fall of the Musharrif government, and a nuclear country will be moved to Islamic fundamentalism in part due to our support of a dictator. I wonder how long it will take for the Saudi Royal Family to suffer the same fate. But probably not--the billyuns and biillyuns they are raking in right now can probably pay for a lot of Blackwater security. AND they export all their radicals to shoot and bomb at us in Iraq.

I guess you haven't been

I guess you haven't been keeping up with current events. The Iraqi government is REQUESTING we set a timetable for withdrawl.

Do try to keep up Sparky...

-- McCain = Four more years of the same --

I think he's in a contest with our new buddy Dimwit Dave

to see who can be the most out of touch with reality.

By hatey July 17, 2008 - 9:41am

wow

on the other thread we have a copy and paste job with no reference. Here we have a spam bomb with a very weak citation if you read the last sentences.

This spammer is so sloppy.

Sloppiness comes from lack of knowledge

and hatey excels at the "lack of knowledge" part of the equation. You know, the military has probably lowered their standards enough to even take him now. Maybe he should support victory in Iraq by volunteering. The Pentagon is scrambling to find troops to send to Afghanistan. Maybe hatey would enjoy that. He could get started on his stated goal to kill hundreds of millions of muslims. To paraphrase an old proverb, "The mass murder of hundreds of millions begins with a single massascre".

By UffdaguyJuly 17, 2008 - 10:59am

One of hatey's sock puppets claims to be a vet. I think the same one claims a stupid niece in the military.

More likely a stupid niece in the military tried to shoot him

because he claimed to be a vet!

Wouldn't it be nice

if all the warmongers would go to their nearest recruiting station?

It is sadly amusing that the neigborhoods in this area that have recruiting stations are all in economically challenged areas. The Red counties have none. Must be nice to be wealthy and to have others serve you.

If what we are fighting in Iraq

really was predominantly AQ, then leaving would present a lot of difficulty. Taking our troops out would be followed by a huge increase in violence that Iraqi troops would be hard pressed to handle. But that is not the case.

Most of those fighting in Iraq are Iraqis, angry at the US occupation. When American troops leave, they will have gotten what they wanted all along. If they keep fighting us as we leave, it could only delay our departure further. Why keep fighting after you won?

With us out of the picture, the Iraqis can focus on AQ. They are a small faction with little local support.

Al Qaeda is easy to find...just go to Afghanistan and Pakistan

the same places they have always been. But since neither one has oil, they have been suffering from benign neglect. Dems have been decrying the lack of emphasis on Afghanistan since the runup to the Iraq war, and now that neglect has had such dire consequences that the Pentagon is scrambling to find more troops to send there. Unfortunately, as the head of Joint Chiefs said earlier this week, the only troops we have left to send are already in Iraq. So, as we have been saying for 5 years now, Iraq has tied our troops down, making it impossible to respond anywhere else they may be needed. Yet another massive blunder by the Bush administration. What does that make it, something like the 10, 273rd since he slithered into the Oval Office?

I was with Chimpy

Until he made his "Right Turn" into Iraq. Why invade a new country before the job is done in the old one? But Afghanistan suffers fromm worldwide neglect from both sides in the Cold War. Since they have no resopurces to speak of, and since the Silk Road is no longer a viable trade route, the world has passed Afghanistan by, except for their opium crop. When the Sovs pulled out in '89, the American support for the Mujhadihn dried up overnight. We can;'t leave 'em alone, becuase they grow something that poisons our youth. Gotta use the daisy cutters on them too. what the hell, they're only brown people. Better to fight 'em over there than to fight 'em here...or so goes the Conservatard logic. There has to be killing somewhere, so make sure it's outside our borders.

Boy, I guess you sure showed us!


Wow!... That article was SCATHING!...

Just look at some excerpts:

=========================

“Everyone in Iraq likes him [Obama],” said the general, Nassir al-Hiti. “I like him. He’s young. Very active. We would be very happy if he was elected president.”

“In no way do I favor the occupation of my country,” said Abu Ibrahim, a Western-educated businessman in Baghdad.

Even as some Iraqis disagreed about Mr. Obama’s stance on withdrawal, they expressed broad approval for him [Obama] personally as an improvement over Mr. Bush, who remains unpopular among broad portions of Iraqi society five years after the war began. No one interviewed expressed a strong dislike for Mr. Obama.

Saad Sultan, an official in an Iraqi government ministry, contended that Mr. Obama could give a fresh start to relations between the Arab world and the United States... “Every time I see Obama I say: ‘He’s close to us. Maybe he’ll see us in a different way,’ ” Mr. Sultan said. “I find Obama very close to my heart.”

“Of course I want the American forces to leave Iraq,” said May Adnan Yunis, whose sister was killed, along with a female and a male co-worker, when they were gunned down by American soldiers while driving to work at Baghdad International Airport three weeks ago. “I want them to go to hell.”

=========================

Yup!.. You sure showed us a thing or two!

And, of course as previously pointed out, THE ELECTED GOVERNMENT OF IRAQ HAS OFFICIALLY ASKED US TO LEAVE AND TO PRESENT A TIMETABLE FOR WITHDRAWAL.

"Thanks for everything... Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/purple_finger.jpg

Nice cut and paste

why not just serve the link next time and save us all that scrolling?

So in the view of Pakistan, it would piss them off if we

actually wised up, got the hell out of Iraq, and decided to go back and finish the job in Afghanistan that we should have focussed on from the beginning?

TOO DAMN BAD!!!! Pakistan vies with Israel for being the worst ally the US could possibly have. Pakistan is eager to take billions of dollars in US aid while providing support for the Taliban and Al Qaeda, mouthing platitudes that they really, really want to find Osama bin Laden. Pakistan's ISI supported the Taliban and helped them come to power in Afghanistan in the first place, with the assistance of the Pakistani army. The Afghanistan-Pakistan border has always been porous, so much so that the Pakistanis allowed bin Laden to escape over the border into Pakistan from Tora Bora. If we are to really deal with Al Qaeda and the Taliban, we need to deal with the Pakistan-Afghanistan border regions, and we need to get out of the same tired mold of supporting a leader instead of a nation. Musharraf is NOT Pakistan. Mubarrak is NOT Egypt. Maliki is NOT Iraq. Ahmadinajad is NOT Iran. The US always seems to end up supporting a person over a process. No wonder people around the world find our talk about democracy to be confusing and contradictory. We tell them that we want them to have free and fair elections, but if they choose someone we don't like, we immediately try to take them down. Once they have someone we approve of, or at least can stomach, we support them no matter what they do. Did anyone see that Karzai fired the chief prosecutor in Afghanistan yesterday, just after that man declared he would be a candidate in the presidential elections next year?

If we want to deal with other nations, especially in areas like the Middle East, and build stability, we need to start supporting processes, not individuals. Maybe Pakistan would shape up if we made it clear we support a democratic process, and not a man who lies to our faces while he steals our money, a man who took power in a coup and manipulated elections.

Pakistan's ISI supported the

Pakistan's ISI supported the Taliban and helped them come to power in Afghanistan in the first place, with the assistance of the Pakistani army.

guess what, sparky? A major factor in the rise of the Taliban was US aid to the Mujhadin during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

Gates warns of militarization of US foreign policy

Gates warns of militarization of US foreign policy, cites lack of success in Afghanistan
LOLITA C. BALDOR
AP News
Jul 15, 2008 19:47 EST

The U.S. military's growing role in rebuilding war-battered nations has fueled concerns about a "creeping militarization" of American foreign policy, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Tuesday.

As the conflict in Afghanistan shows, coordinating war-fighting with diplomacy, job creation and road-building often doesn't work well, the Pentagon chief said in remarks prepared for delivery at an international policy dinner.

"Getting all these different elements to coordinate operations and share best practices has been a colossal — and so far an all too often unsuccessful — undertaking," said Gates.

He added that the increased involvement of the military in jobs that historically were done by civilian agencies has led to concerns of "a creeping militarization of some aspects of America's foreign policy."

In both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, U.S. troops have been doing far more than fighting insurgents and securing borders. They've coordinated reconstruction projects and filled transition teams that bolstered fragile local governments and rebuilt industry.

Gates has repeatedly said that the State Department and some non-governmental organizations have been underfunded and understaffed for too long. And he has warned that military might alone cannot win wars.

Instead, he has called for more support for so-called soft power, with civilians contributing more in nonmilitary areas such as communication, economic assistance and political development.

As the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have dragged on, many have argued that the Bush administration missed opportunities early on to head off insurgents by failing to focus on economic development, promotion of internal reconciliation and training of police forces.

On Tuesday, Gates expanded on that theme, using the worsening situation in Afghanistan as an example of the problem. A recent spate of deadly attacks in Afghanistan has underscored the resurgence of the Taliban there — more than six years after they were ousted by the U.S.-led invasion.

...

US Afghan bombing 'kills dozens'

US Afghan bombing 'kills dozens'
Thursday, 17 July 2008 12:41 UK
By Alastair Leithead
BBC News, Kabul

Dozens of Afghan civilians have been killed during aerial bombing by US forces in the western province of Herat, tribal elders say.

They said an important tribal elder was among the dead in Shindand district.

A Nato spokesman said a number of insurgents had been killed and there were no reports of civilian casualties.

Earlier, US forces admitted killing eight civilians in a neighbouring province - the latest in a series of bombing incidents involving civilians.

...

Trade 1 war for another?

You people are a bunch of idiots. All you have is a hard-on because the US is going to be bombing some place on the Earth.

You are totally clueless about the political, social and economic dynamics in that region. All you know is you want oil to fuel your shameful SUV.

So we leave Iraq for Afghanistan. You are still protecting oil company profits because a huge pipleline goes thru there.

You will find yourself in still another Vietnam and spending more than $8billion dollars a week!

The US lacks any credible information/intelligence about that area of the planet. Richard Clarke knew the most about that area and of course the Bush Administration chased him away from the CIA so they could attack Iraq.

Now you're going to find yourself could up in a worse Vietnam for the same senseless reasons.

Official Washington, DC loves the war on terror. It's multi-zillion dollar sinkhole that'll make defense contractors/industry shamefully rich. In the meantime, Unemployment, the economy, health care and the needs of US citizens will be completely ignored. In 3 years the US will look like Germany after WW-2 ended in 1945. Ruble, ruble and more ruble.

This is so boring having to say this over & over again and no one listens or gives a shit!

Good luck you dummies, you offically bought into the Washington, DC bullshit line!
CoyoteMan

Whao, whoa, whoa!... Hold up there, skippy.


YOU may be ready to write off the 9-11 attacks, BUT NOT ME.

Until the motherfuckers that turned thousands of my friends and neighbors INTO 400 METRIC TONS OF SMOLDERING, ROTTING FLESH ARE DEAD, I must insist that we make every effort to crush the Taliban, destroy Al Qaeda (the real one) AND HUNT DOWN BIN LADEN, WHEREVER HE IS, AND HANG HIM FROM A ROPE UNTIL DEAD... PERIOD... PAKISTAN, BE DAMNED.

This is non-negotiable. It is a moral imperitive of the highest priority.

As usual you missed the point of what I said.

I didn't say do nothing. I said before you bomb the hell out of some place have very good intelligence on who, what, where & why.

If you start bombing & invading suspected "terrorist" locations, you'd have bomb and invade most of the planet! Starting with Saudi Arabia where the 9/11 high jackers came from !!!

As it was Bush-Cheney picked the most vulnerable country to attack because they thought they could high jack their oil and start building the American Empire.

Now you are stuck in a 2 front war and soon to be in a new 2 front war. Without knowing if & where your enemy actually is.

Of course US troops will be protecting the Afghan oil pipeline (who da thunk that Duh!) just like they are protecting the Iraqi oil fields.

First and foremost you must secure your homeland. After 7 long years the homeland is more NON-secure than it was on Setp 10, 2001.

After throwing away zillions on phony Homeland Security "schemes" and devices, our borders & ports, airports, subways & train stations are more vulnerable than before.

That's all I'm saying!
I'm saying because you blundered into an ill-advised war on terror, lead by the greedy, lying Bush/Cheney Administration, you now have to start from scratch and do the homework & legwork.
Then you can proceed.

As it is right now the taxpayer has spent zillions and gone into debt for smoke & mirrors.

CoyoteMan

You are still protecting oil

You are still protecting oil company profits because a huge pipleline goes thru there.

Which pipeline would that be? Check Google again there, coyote. There are no pipelines in Afghanistan. There's been lots of discussion, but there are no active pipelines. Or construction projects to build one. The Afghans would loot any project long before it could become operational.

Pipeline

The project has been agreed on and is scheduled to begin in 2010.

A Gas Pipeline Framework Agreement, signed by representatives of the four nations on April 25, 2008, commits the four nations to initiating construction of the $7.6 billion gas pipeline in 2010, supplying gas by 2015.

http://verbena19.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/afghanistan-gas-pipeline-could...

OH, HELL YEAH!


Back in 1997, Texas oil men invited THE TALIBAN to enjoy some good old Texas hospitality! They were working a pipeline deal around a company called Unocal.

Guess who was a Unocal consultant at the time??... CURRENT AFGHANISTAN PRESIDENT HAMID KARZAI!... Hmmm... Strange coincidence, eh?... Go figure.

"... the new Afghan government's head, Hamid Karzai, formerly served as a UNOCAL consultant. Only nine days after Karzai's ascension, President Bush nominated another UNOCAL consultant and former Taliban defender, Zalmay Khalilzad, as his special envoy to Afghanistan."

"The Taliban, Afghanistan's Islamic fundamentalist army, is about to sign a £2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across the war-torn country.

The Islamic warriors appear to have been persuaded to close the deal, not through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality. Last week Unocal, the Houston-based company bidding to build the 876-mile pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, invited the Taliban to visit them in Texas. Dressed in traditional salwar khameez, Afghan waistcoats and loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment during the four-day stay."

It's all about "spreading freedom", right?... Pfft!... HA!-HA!... CHUMP!

Sources:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=%2Farchive%2F1997%2F12...

http://www.counterpunch.org/tomenron.html

*KAPOW*

Okay, troll-monkeys...please remind us AGAIN who is supporting terrorism in the Middle East. I'll even give you a hint: by hook or by crook, he's currently occupying the Oval Office!

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

OUCH! - Truth is Painful for the Left

Caught Between Iraq and a Hard Base
Obama's position has been overtaken by events.

Excerpts of Article:

Back in the heady days of late 2006--when Barack Obama decided on his run for president--Democrats had a foolproof plan to gain power: Use the "disastrous" war in Iraq to split the Republican base off from the center, force Republicans in Congress to desert the president, defund the war effort, and compel withdrawal. Declaring defeat in advance, and even embracing it, they tried to cripple the surge before it started. Nancy Pelosi in the House and Harry Reid in the Senate led a chorus of Democrats who declared the war lost...

...The left planned an "Iraq Summer," with antiwar groups spending millions on grassroots campaigns. In May 2007, the Washington Post reported on plans to spend up to $12 million on demonstrations, phone calls, and ad campaigns to pressure Republican lawmakers. Tom Matzzie, head of the activist pressure group Americans Against Escalation in Iraq, visited the offices of Politico to unveil his grandiose plans. "Democrats and the antiwar movement had the GOP 'by the balls,' Matzzie argued. .  .  . 'We're going to smash
their heads against their base, and flush them down the toilet,'
 " he said. Late in July, Congress adjourned, with Democrats convinced that when they returned in September, Republican lines would be shattered. But the only sound one heard last fall was that of a toilet not flushing.

What happened to change things? The proverbial facts on the ground. At the end of July, longtime Bush critics Kenneth Pollack and Michael O'Hanlon, Democrats allied with a center-left think tank, returned from Iraq having found not chaos but "a war we just might win," as the headline on their New York Times op-ed proclaimed. Within weeks, three Democrats who had been to Iraq over the recess also jumped off the antiwar caravan, citing progress sufficient to make them more "flexible" when it came to demands for rapid defunding. These were not the defections Harry Reid had planned on.

Though Democrats did their best in advance to discredit the testimony to Congress in early September of Ambassador Ryan Crocker and General David Petraeus (whom they had called to testify months earlier, when they were certain there would be nothing to report but more failure), their measured accounts of modest but marked improvements everywhere in the country checked the course of debate, and then started to change its direction. Public opinion, which had aligned with the Democrats' base at the height of the violence, began to drift back towards the center...

...Boxing their candidate in is, of course, what the Democratic base wants and insists on. So far, the line has been that the surge is a success but the war is a failure--"whipped cream on a pile of fertilizer," as Time's Joe Klein puts it, "a regional policy unprecedented in its stupidity and squalor." But even this hasn't quite caught up with events. Saddam is gone, Al Qaeda in Iraq is on the run, the Sunnis are with us, the Shia are turning against their militias, and the Washington Post is suggesting that "Iraq, a country with the world's second largest oil reserves and a strategic linchpin of the Middle East, just might emerge from the last five years of war and turmoil as an American ally, even if its relations with Iran remain warm." In other words, the operation was a failure, but the patient has survived, and is somehow becoming healthier by the day. Seldom has failure appeared quite so good.

...In their innocent way they hadn't prepared in the slightest, which is why they are caught between a public that would rather not lose a war and a base of Bush-hating, antiwar supporters to whom the idea of giving up on losing would feel like the worst loss of all. On the one hand, the former is most of the country; on the other, for the past five years or so all of the zest, oomph, zeal, pizzazz, and certainly most of the cash in the party has come from the latter.

...Throughout 2007 and into this year, the Democrats portrayed the surge as Bush's attempt to kick defeat down the road to his successor, but that line, too, has been overtaken by events...

...Bush's successor will have to work hard to lose it, and do so against the loud public protests of the troops who have done so much to win it. This is where Obama's prior pronouncements would lead him, and surely he knows it. His base may still want him to lose "Bush's War," but the rest of the country would never forgive him. Or it.

Conclusion: It's so incredibly easy to prove how the left is comprised of fools. In fact, as the facts show, the left practically does it to itself...Oh, and I almost forgot BWA...HAHAHAHA....BWAAAAH..HAHAHAH.HAHAHA...BWAAAAAAH..HAHAHAHAHAH!

Nice op-ed.

And as is typical of a reich-wing op-ed piece, it's completely devoid of anything even remotely resembling FACT which would support any of its inane assertions.

Now, which of your sock-puppets are going to show up first to call me a liar?

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

It's so incredibly easy to prove WHAT A JACKASS YOU ARE.


Don't make me laugh, skeeter.

An editorial from the Weekly Standard, a right-wing KOOK propoganda rag means nothing to anybody but right-wing KOOKS like you.

NEED I POINT OUT that the creator of this propoganda rag IS WILLIAM KRISTOL??... AKA "MR. WRONG"??

Actually I find your post quite comforting because William Kristol has been 180 degrees WRONG about every thing he has ever said.

No shit!... Look it up!... Review all of the "brilliant" analysis and predictions this neo-con RETARD has spewed since we invaded Iraq... Go ahead. See for yourself.

As the dollar sinks lower and lower

and more and more banks fail, right wing extremists like YOU will be the first to demand that the govt guarantees your money, using the liberal programs designed to do just that. In neocon fantasy land, profits are privatized but losses are socialized.

Conclusion: All right wingers are socialists, looking for govt bailouts and handouts but only when it effects them. Further proof of what hypocrites they all are.

Hell yeah.

Like I was telling Froggy yesterday, these assholes like them enjoy all the benefits of a civilized society while doing everything they can to avoid there responsibilities to that society.

Selfish, self-centered assholes, plain and simple... They're like greedy, selfish children that never matured.

Re-instate the Draft

Maybe if kids of Conservatards had to go fight and die for their oil, they'd be interested in alternatives...

SheddsShitspread - Still posting opinion as fact

Recess is over, junior, go roll out your mat for nap time.

“God has a sense of humor. If you don't believe me, tomorrow go to Wal-Mart and just look at people.” Carlos Mencia

They tell us the "surge" is ending...

Military surge in Iraq ends; 150,000 troops remain
LOLITA C. BALDOR
AP News
Jul 16, 2008 05:27 EST

The military surge into Iraq that began more than 18 months ago has ended. But 150,000 U.S. troops remain, as many as 15,000 more than before the buildup began.

...

It's that Repugnican fuzzy math again

A net increase of 20,000 troops isn't REALLY an increase...

Barack Obama surges past John McCain in fundraising stakes

Barack Obama surges past John McCain in fundraising stakes
Daniel Nasaw in Washington
guardian.co.uk, Thursday July 17, 2008

Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential candidate, raised $52m (£26m) for his campaign in June, his second highest monthly total and more than twice of what his Republican rival, John McCain, received.

Combined with cash raised by the Democratic national committee, which is also contributing to a war chest for the November contest, Obama and his party have $72m available at present to spend on advertising, staffing and other campaign tools.

"More impressive than the number is how you did it," Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, said. "Hundreds of thousands of ordinary people contributed to building our campaign for change. Many were first-time donors, giving only what they could afford - and the average donation was just $68.

"You continue to prove what ordinary Americans committed to change can accomplish, despite the Washington lobbyists and special interest [political action committees] funding so much of our opponents' campaign."

The monthly total – compared with the $22m McCain raised – shows that Obama's fundraising machine has not withered since he beat Hillary Clinton for the party nomination.

...

American Public Maybe Finally Waking Up

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows Barack Obama attracting 44% of the vote while John McCain earns 42%. When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 46% and McCain 46% (see recent daily results). McCain is viewed favorably by 56% of voters, Obama by 54%. Tracking Polls are released at 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time each day. State polling released yesterday showed Obama with a steady lead in Oregon and McCain with a twenty-point lead in Kansas.

Gallup Poll:

McCain: 44%
Obama: 47%

Conclusion: Because of his incessant, constant, and rapid flip-flopping - none of which is based in fact (especially not for Iraq or the economy) - the enthusiam for Obama is obviously beginning to cool, as the public starts to grasp the obvious: Obama is just another Kerry, who will say and do just about anything to get elected, even if it means camaflouging his extreme leftism, which is proven by his voting record in Congress. The only difference is that Obama is like Kerry on steroids because he flip-flops far more rapidly than Kerry.

Yup, Shitspread - got a problem with that?

Remember, junior. It's only July.

“God has a sense of humor. If you don't believe me, tomorrow go to Wal-Mart and just look at people.” Carlos Mencia

So, you right wing moron,

What you basically said is that Obama is ahead and the American people have woke up. Is that night manager job at Target getting to you finally? Are you wondering why you have not been promoted after all this time? It is because normal people can spot a deluded liar like you from miles away.

Jukebox John

Take a look at this loooong yet incomplete list of Jukebox John's flip-flops:

Jukebox John changes his tune every few minutes

A few McSame Flip-Flops

Against Torture...before he was for it.
In favor of Immigration Reform...before he was against it.
Against unconstitutional wiretapping...before he was for it.
Opposed to abortion restrictions...before he was in favor of them,.
Opposed to gay marriage...before he was in favor of it.
Recited the names of the 1972 Pittsburgh Steelers in 1967 in North Vietnam (when asked to give names of his squaron mates)...before he recited the names of the Green Bay Packers.
Opposed to the Iraq War...before he was in favor of it.

May I amend to include ...

Against tax cuts ... before he was for them.
Against the "agents of intolerance" religious right ... before he fell in love with them.
In favor of campaign finance reform, actually sponsoring legislation for reform ... before he opposed it.
Opposed against privatization of social security ... before he was in favor of it.
In favor of the estate tax ... before he was against it.
Opposed to Monkey Boy's telecom immunity ... before he was in favor of it.

'kay, I'm tired now but there are MANY, MANY more instances of McSame's flip-flopping. Actually, he makes a fish out of water look positively stiff.

“God has a sense of humor. If you don't believe me, tomorrow go to Wal-Mart and just look at people.” Carlos Mencia

People like shedd still can't justify the Iraq invasion

When they aren't telling us the UN made us do it they base their arguments on Saddam was a bad man. They then try to explain that Saddam was a threat to the world because he was supporting other bad men around the world. Supposedly Iraq had to be toppled because it's leader was giving wmd and wmd materials to bad men that could hurt us.

The problem: They can't substantiate the claim that he was giving wmd or materials to terrorists. And there were no wmd or wmd programs.

Occasionally the right wing will claim that Saddam himself was a threat to us but they usually back off that nonsense.

Getting Out of Iraq by Rep. Ron Paul

Getting Out of Iraq
by Rep. Ron Paul
July 17, 2008


What will it take to get our troops out of Iraq? The roughly 70 percent of Americans who are firmly against the war often ask this question. Those in power are reluctant to give conditions, but when they do and those conditions are met, the goal post is quietly moved.

Voters were promised, passionately and vehemently, that the new Congress would bring our troops home. Many were explicitly elected in 2006 under that banner. But our troops are still overseas, funding has been increased even beyond the administration's wish list, and troop withdrawal has been negotiated away.

When things are going badly in Iraq, they say we must stay until the situation improves. When things improve, they tell us we must stay because our gains cannot be jeopardized.

We are told that we must establish a functioning democracy there, and train Iraqi armed forces so they can keep order in our absence. Iraq now has a Constitution, an elected parliament, and hundreds of thousands of security forces. The problem now is that their troops are supposedly not trained quite well enough, and that could take many more years. Defining an adequate training level for Iraqi troops is highly nebulous and its anyone's guess when or how that criteria could be satisfied.

The latest outrage came last week. For years we heard the administration claim over and over that the Iraqi government wants us there, and is begging us to stay. On the other hand, all they had to do was ask and we would respect their wishes and leave. That also has now happened. Al-Maliki perhaps took his cue from his challenger, al-Sadr, who has been clamoring for us to leave for years. Popular opinion in Iraq now mirrors that in the United States, with about 70 percent of Iraqis wishing us to leave.

At the end of the year, our Status of Forces Agreement expires. Without a new agreement and understanding with the Iraqi government regarding our presence there, we officially become occupiers.

...

A Response to f u bush2: The Whole Truth - Not Half Truths

Obama campaign raised $52 million in June

Excerpts:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democrat Barack Obama raised $52 million last month, boosting his presidential campaign's fundraising while building up his financial cache for the fall campaign.

The Obama campaign and the Democratic National Committee ended June with a combined total of $92.3 million in the bank. The figure represents a notable fundraising jump, especially for the DNC.

...Last week, McCain reported raising more than $22 million in June, which was his best month of the year. Together, the McCain campaign and the Republican National Committee began July with about $95 million in the bank...

...Unlike McCain, Obama has chosen to bypass the presidential public financing system for the fall campaign (1), which would have provided him with $84 million but would have prevented him from raising private money. McCain has agreed to accept the public money, which puts a greater emphasis on party fundraising....

The DNC said it raised $22.4 million in June, a dramatic increase from the $4.7 million it raised in May. The spike in fundraising came after Obama and the DNC formed a joint fundraising effort. Donors can give a maximum contribution to the party of $28,500.

The DNC still fell short of its Republican counterpart, which raised $26 million in June.

McCain, aided by a large cash on hand surplus at the RNC, is off to a head start and has been outspending Obama in advertising. McCain has concentrated his advertising in about 11 battleground states. Obama has been spending less but has broadened the field to about 18 states.

(This version CORRECTS Democrats' combined total to $92.3 million sted $72 million.)

Conclusion: The WHOLE truth, dispelling the HALF truths and SPIN used by the left to support their case. Oh..., and I almost forgot: BWA..HAHAHAHAH....BWAAAAH...HAHAHAHA...BWAAAAAAH...HAHAHAHA!

What's your point?

Obama out-raised McCain. The Repub party, which has in the past, out-paced the Dems, isn't doing so either. The repubs look to get around the public limit with fund raising by the party itself. Obama's individual effort will make up that gap.

By SheddJuly 17, 2008 - 2:21pm

And yet Obama out raised McCain, and as The Hill reported this week congressional republicans are not donating to McCain because they are left to their own. The RNC has said so.

But thanks for pointing out it was 92 million and not 72 million dollars.

So continue laughing shedd. Continue laughing....

...And Yet,

...despite these limitations, the RNC still raised more money than the DNC! What does that tell you? It's almost as if the RNC is fighting the fund-raising battle with one hand tied behind its back, but is still beating the DNC! This tends to show how fundamentally weak and rather pathetic the leftist-dominated DNC truly is.

It tells me what we all knew already

The republican party is the party of the richest. When the limits for individual contributions is higher, they have an ability to raise more. Those folks want their tax breaks, no matter how counter productive they are for the economy as a whole.

What is really fascinating is that the size of the average

donation to Obama was $68. In other words, it wasn't rich lobbyists and corporate elites that were giving to his campaign. It was average, everyday working folks who are supporting him. I see a royal asskicking in store for McCain and the repub "brand" in November!

Smells like desperation to me.


I think Republicans are finally waking up to the fact that THEIR CON-GAMES AND ABJECT THIEVERY THAT HAS DESTROYED THIS NATION ARE OVER.

I think you assholes have shit your pants.

By SheddJuly 17, 2008 - 2:41pm

And yet the RNC has to give all their money to McCain because Obama is out raising McCain.

You lose.

Best get used to the idea, Hitler Youth...

Your Conservative Revolution is TOAST!

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury