Torture At Guantanamo Bay
Murat Kurnaz, a young Turkish citizen born and raised in Germany, traveled to Pakistan to learn more about Islam in October 2001, weeks after the September 11 terrorist attacks against the United States. In short order, arrested and held by U.S. forces in Kandahar, and then shipped off to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Bad timing was his only crime.
By 2002, according to documents obtained by his attorneys, both the U.S. and German governments had determined conclusively that Kurnaz was neither a terrorist, nor a terrorist sympathizer or supporter, but American military officials nonetheless refused to release him and instead held him in solitary confinement for five years. For much of that time, he was unaware that anybody in his family knew where he was or if he was alive. And for the entire stretch he was subjected to torture.
In his account before the House Foreign Affairs' Oversight Subcommittee on Tuesday, Kurnaz detailed a technique visited upon him in Kandahar called "water treatment"--a perverse twist on a more widely known technique called waterboarding--wherein the victim's head is forced into a bucket of water while he's punched repeatedly in the stomach, causing him to inhale water.
Additionally, he said, he was subjected to religious and sexual humiliation, administered unknown drugs against his will, and electrocuted via wires attached to his feet.
In a bitter irony, Kurnaz's innocence became the rationale for his continued incarceration. He was told repeatedly that he'd be held forever unless he signed a statement admitting his role in a suicide bombing that was alleged to have happened in 2003. Kurnaz was, of course, in prison in 2003, and the suicide bombing he supposedly helped to orchestrate turned out to be a fiction.
"America's adherence to the rule of law... and American values [have been] ignored. The treatment of these detainees--both in Gitmo and elsewhere--has been appalling."
The two committee Republicans to attend the hearing were sympathetic to Kurnaz's plight, but ranking member Dana Rohrbacher remained incredulous that the treatment he faced was anything other than an aberration. "I don't believe it," Rohrbacher intoned, suggesting that torture is not part of the military's detainee treatment policy. To support his contention, Rohrbacher noted that none of the congressmen who have visited Guantanamo--Democrat or Republican--has returned with any evidence that torture is a systemic problem
Rep. Jerrold Nadler, who sits on the House Judiciary committee scolded Rohrbacher, noting that American politicians are not allowed access to prisoners when they visit the installation, and have no other way of ascertaining how endemic the torture problem really is.
Rohrbacher's disbelief also flies in the face of scores of media and watchdog reports, which show that prisoner abuse has been a matter of policy at Guantanamo and other U.S.-operated facilities around the world for years. And on the same day as the hearing, the FBI's inspector general released a report praising the Bureau for not participating in the abusive interrogations conducted by other agencies--a direct insinuation that other agencies do indeed torture prisoners.
For his part, Kurnaz says stories like his are common among the prisoners who've been held at Guantanamo, 250 of whom remain in captivity. "Often people were released because their countries demanded it," he said. "Others remain because their countries do not."
- FILED UNDER: Editor Posts, Terrorism, White House
- May 20, 2008
Does anyone know,
can you get odds in Vegas on when Ted kicks it?
I say he holds on until after Denver.
btw, my scotch stocks are down already.
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By its_so_overMay 20, 2008 - 9:03pmYou're right about one thing, pussbo...
Your Great Conservative Revolution is SO VERY FUCKING OVER. You and your kind are poised to be flushed down the shitter of history, right next to all the other little turds. You'll be sharing a sewer with Milli Vanilli, Yugos, and polyester leisure suits.
Also, you shouldn't be so mean to Ted. He paid your mom five bucks for a standup quickie, didn't he? You might just be a Kennedy!
You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury
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By LiberalIconoclastMay 20, 2008 - 9:11pmTorture Torture Torture
Of course AA belives this guy eventhough the Manchester Document (Terrorist Handbook) SPECIFICALLY tells them that no matter how well they are treated to claim torture...
Rep. Jerrold Nadler, who sits on the House Judiciary committee scolded Rohrbacher, noting that American politicians are not allowed access to prisoners when they visit the installation, and have no other way of ascertaining how endemic the torture problem really is.
OK so now we have another Jack (our Marines are MURDERERS oops they'be been acquited - My bad) Murtha and his name is Jerrold Nadler.....
Nice to know that a US Representative believes the words of Mr. Kurnaz (who probably has a bone to pick) over the US Military. Very nice Rep. Nadler...
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 20, 2008 - 9:25pmToo little too late, my man...
One, the old Rove tactic of accusing the messenger? You're better than that. Plus the public is really really tired of it.
Two, public opinion is also against the idea of Americans torturing anyone. I know you think Muslims are fair game because well, they're not quite human, but you're in the minority. Also, you start torturing brown people, how long before your ass gets waterboarded because a SP with a bad attitude thought you might have done something that needs to be confessed?
Three, it's done. Even if Grumpy McShitpants manages to steal this one, he'll be a lame-ass dying duck before his inauguration. Better enjoy the upcoming invasion of Iran while you can (since Chimpy plans to use the Navy on that one)...it will be your only shot at Muslim hunting.
You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury
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By LiberalIconoclastMay 20, 2008 - 9:40pmBy LiberalIconoclastMay 20, 2008 - 9:40pm
Hey if GWB does his duty and takes care of the Iranian nuclear facilities, I really don't care who wins the election, Iran will be taken care of and Obama won't be in the "hot seat"....
Sounds like a "win-win" to me... Who knows, there may already be an agreement between Bush and Obama for Bush to hit Iran before Obama is sworn in......Doesn't matter, problem solved...
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 20, 2008 - 9:48pmDon't know why I bother
You just never will grasp the idea that a free nation doesn't go around bombing and invading people we don't like. We have no reason to invade Iran, except for President Deserter's favorite reason: OIL. You want to die so that BP can gouge us six bucks a gallon instead of four? Be my guest.
You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury
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By LiberalIconoclastMay 20, 2008 - 9:53pmBy LiberalIconoclastMay 20, 2008 - 9:53pm
I'd rather pay $6.00 a gallon (and by the way help the American people realize ALGore's goal of less CO2 as we would HAVE to conserve) and be assured that a country that is an avowed STATE SPONSOR OF TERRORISM NEVER gets the ability to build and supply a nuclear device to some suicidal Islamo-fuck who would blow up one of our cities...
Well, unless it's Berkeley, then maybe....
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 20, 2008 - 10:02pmHe's lying
He's a lying terrorist and he needs to rot in Gitmo. The last one we released blew himself up and killed a bunch of people like the dirtbag that he was. He'll at least rot in hell for being a child murderer. As far as Kennedy goes, I hope that if the treatments he undergos dont cure him, that he does not suffer and dies a peaceful death. I never agreed with him politically but appreciated his service to our country. God speed Teddy!
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By moneyosMay 20, 2008 - 9:42pmre: By moneyos May 20, 2008 - 9:42pm
Your sorry ass should be tossed in Gitmo and see how you enjoy the stay.
♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪
"Three great forces rule the world: stupidity, fear and greed." -- Albert Einstein
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By GazmikMay 20, 2008 - 9:48pmBy GazmikMay 20, 2008 - 9:48pm
BEEN THERE DONE THAT, got a REALLY cool T-Shirt:
"The Taliban Towers, The Caribbeans Newest 5-Star Resort!"
Has a great pic of the detention facility on it...
I could get you one!
Oh and before you are too quick to defend all things Islamic, check this out..
By Molly Moore
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, April 29, 2008; A01
SEQUEDIN, France — Samia El Alaoui Talibi walks her beat in a cream-colored head scarf and an ink-black robe with sunset-orange piping, an outfit she picked up at a yard sale.
After passing a bulletproof window, El Alaoui Talibi trudges through half a dozen heavy, locked doors to reach the Muslim faithful to whom she ministers in the women’s cellblock of the Lille-Sequedin Detention Center in far northern France.
It took her years to earn this access, said El Alaoui Talibi, one of only four Muslim holy women allowed to work in French prisons. “Everyone has the same prejudices and negative image of Muslims and Islam,” said Moroccan-born El Alaoui Talibi, 47, the mother of seven children. “When some guards see you, they see an Arab; they see you the same as if you were a prisoner.”
This prison is majority Muslim — as is virtually every house of incarceration in France. About 60 to 70 percent of all inmates in the country’s prison system are Muslim, according to Muslim leaders, sociologists and researchers, though Muslims make up only about 12 percent of the country’s population.
On a continent where immigrants and the children of immigrants are disproportionately represented in almost every prison system, the French figures are the most marked, according to researchers, criminologists and Muslim leaders.
“The high percentage of Muslims in prisons is a direct consequence of the failure of the integration of minorities in France,” said Moussa Khedimellah, a sociologist who has spent several years conducting research on Muslims in the French penal system."
Maybe the fact that there are a bunch of Muslims in French jails is because they BREAK THE DAMN LAW....
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 20, 2008 - 9:56pmre: By Fight4it May 20, 2008 - 9:56pm
Why don't you try it as a prisoner?
♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪
"Three great forces rule the world: stupidity, fear and greed." -- Albert Einstein
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By GazmikMay 20, 2008 - 10:26pmBy GazmikMay 20, 2008 - 10:26pm
Ya know, if I ever take up the mantle of Islam and terror, I just may get that opportunity....
Now, how about that T-shirt? What size? They cost about $16 but I'll spring for it. I loved wearing mine to Disney World when I got back from deployment.... Got quite a few Hi-5s and at Sea World I didn't have to pay for a single Beer....
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 20, 2008 - 10:33pmBy Fight4itMay 20, 2008 - 9:56pm
That sounds awfully familiar. Oh yeah, that's a lot like the disproportionate number of African-Americans in U.S. prisons.
It seems that racism is alive & well in France. See there FRighty, you have more in common with the French than you thought.
Support the Troops
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By Guy FawkesMay 20, 2008 - 10:38pmBy Guy FawkesMay 20, 2008 - 10:38pm
Ohhhh, so now the French are bigots too (get it right, not racist, Islam is NOT a race). And again, why is there a disproportionate number of minorities in US prisons? Answer: Because minorities commit a disproportionate amount of the crime....
Is that racist...No, it's fact...
"A subsequent United States Department of Justice report which surveyed homicide statistics between 1974 and 2004 stated that of the crimes surveyed, 52.1% of the offenders were Black, 45.9% were White, and 2% were Other Races."
Ummm dude, blacks make up about 12% of the US population and according to this, commit 52% of the murders......
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 20, 2008 - 10:46pmBy Fight4itMay 20, 2008 - 10:46pm
I wasn't referring to your irrational Islamophobia, FRightenedTwit. I was talking about your past racist posts regarding American Indians & African Americans.
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By Guy FawkesMay 20, 2008 - 11:01pmBy Guy FawkesMay 20, 2008 - 11:01pm
frightened twit supports a murderous regime. He's not very ethical or moral.
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By f u bush2May 20, 2008 - 11:04pmBy Fight4itMay 20, 2008 - 10:46pm
As contards like yourself know only too well, it's all about the money. Blacks are CONVICTED of many more crimes. Poverty not only drives one to crime in some instances, it also means that you can't afford legal defense.
Support the Troops
End the Occupation
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By Guy FawkesMay 20, 2008 - 11:11pmBy Guy FawkesMay 20, 2008 - 11:11pm
Hmmmm... Wrong again. Legal defense is the ONE place in our Constitution that you are GIVEN somebody else's services (that 6th amendment). Pull out yor pocket copy and READ. If you need one, you can get a copy free at:
Heritage.org
Glad to be of service...
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 21, 2008 - 7:05amAnd I'm sure the one that's
And I'm sure the one that's GIVEN to someone is comparable to the one that costs a lot of money.
You really are a sad, sad person.
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By PasztMay 21, 2008 - 8:50amTommycarl! Missed you
Not.
Go tap toes in your local bowling alley shitter, republifag.
You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury
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By LiberalIconoclastMay 20, 2008 - 9:52pmNot me,
I think a mercy drowning is in order.
Say hello to your brothers when you get to hell, Teddy.
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By its_so_overMay 20, 2008 - 11:26pmOk Gazmik
What would you like us to do with captured enemy combatants? Should we do the liberal thing and maybe counsel them or give them therapy and then release them if they promise not to attack us again? They had no problem sawing off the heads of our innocent countrymen and then putting it on YouTube. If we have to use non-lethal techniques to extract information, then so be it. Maybe we should obey the Geneva convention and international law like they do.......
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By moneyosMay 20, 2008 - 9:57pmOh moneyos
You are just giving me more and more reason to dislike people of your faith.
Did you miss this part of the article: "By 2002, according to documents obtained by his attorneys, both the U.S. and German governments had determined conclusively that Kurnaz was neither a terrorist, nor a terrorist sympathizer or supporter".
He was found to be innocent but was still kept for 5 years and tortured the whole time. But I suppose that's OK in your twisted mind because he doesn't believe in Jesus and got what he deserves? We can't take the chance to let a terrorist go so we have to detain and torture anyone with brown skin? Is that what Jesus would do?
If the mythology of Christianity was real, you would definately go to hell.
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By PasztMay 21, 2008 - 8:56amBy PasztMay 21, 2008 - 8:56am
And once again, he was "tortured" because he says so huh? So innocent until proven guilty applies to people who are arrested as suspected terrorists but doesn't apply to the brave men and women of the US Military... Got it! Thanks for the addendum to the rule book!
PS: Even in the US people are placed in jail only to be found not guilty later.... It happens... If you ride with cattle rustlers, you die with cattle rustlers...
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 21, 2008 - 1:59pmBy Fight4itMay 21, 2008 - 1:59pm
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By f u bush2May 21, 2008 - 2:03pmwhaaaaat????
So innocent until proven guilty applies to people who are arrested as suspected terrorists but doesn't apply to the brave men and women of the US Military
I have no idea where that comes from, I never said anything like that...
Read this again, they say the third time is the charm:
"By 2002, according to documents obtained by his attorneys, both the U.S. and German governments had determined conclusively that Kurnaz was neither a terrorist, nor a terrorist sympathizer or supporter"
How can you compare a person incorrectly found guilty of a crime to a person who the US government determined conclusively wasn't a terrorist nor a terrorist sympathizer or supporter, but was still held in solitary confinement for five years?
Even if you concede the torture part of the story, he was still held without reason. I think you miss the point of the entire article.
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By PasztMay 21, 2008 - 4:01pmBy PasztMay 21, 2008 - 4:01pm
Nope, not acutally correct...
You said:
"We can't take the chance to let a terrorist go so we have to detain and torture anyone with brown skin?" - OH and there are WHITE people locked up in GTMO too and guess what, they are MUSLIM TERRORISTS....
www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-03-26-hicks-arraignment_N.htm
You are assuming based on the words of inmates that they are being tortured. YOU ASSUME they are telling the truth and the MEN and WOMEN of the US Armed Forces are guilty. Oh and by they way as far as the solitary goes. All of them get private cells (just like in US jails) unless they EARN priviliges to live in a group. JUST LIKE IN US JAILS....
As far as held without reason, again, that even happens in the states. One in FL for 26 years. Now, did HE go out and commit a suicide bombing.... Nope...
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE3D91F3FF937A3575BC0A9639C8B63&sec=&spon=
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 21, 2008 - 4:11pmBy Fight4itMay 21, 2008 - 4:11pm
Everyone knows about the torture nomrod.
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By f u bush2May 21, 2008 - 4:17pmBy f u bush2May 21, 2008 - 4:17pm
That pussy claims he worked at GITMO, & he knows that the "I was just following orders" defense doesn't hold any water. This would explain his opposition to U.S. military members being tried by the ICC. He's afraid that his dumb, heartless, racist ass would get "Nuremburged".
Support the Troops
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By Guy FawkesMay 21, 2008 - 4:44pmBy Guy FawkesMay 21, 2008 - 4:44pm
So can I take it that you would want to see all our military members and all members of congress who voted for the use of force and Kyl-Lieberman and all the people who voted FOR those representatives hauled before some ICC? Does that pretty much sum it up dipshit? After all the people that voted for the people that voted for the use of force are just as guilty....
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 21, 2008 - 10:19pmBy Fight4itMay 21, 2008 - 10:19pm
That's your defense? Better get a lawyer for the trial. Don't get one from Liberty U. Get a real one.
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By f u bush2May 21, 2008 - 11:03pmTorture is criminal
All americans that take part in torture, set it as policy and support it should get a noose in their future if there is to be justice.
Hopefully someday the standing of the US will be lower and other nations will not kiss our ass. Then those guilty of torture will not be allowed to leave the country unless they want Saddam's fate.
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By f u bush2May 20, 2008 - 10:26pmBut then again torture works
McCain said he was a war criminal under torture. It must be a way to get the truth.
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By f u bush2May 20, 2008 - 10:27pmMcCain says the troops will be home by 2013
How many times has he accused opponents of being soft by setting deadlines?
Isn't that appeasement?
Didn't he say it would be a 100 year war?
What a hypocrite!
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By f u bush2May 20, 2008 - 10:40pmYou're right
There is a difference between the torture the Nazis used in WWII and the techniques used at Gitmo. My grandfather was a member of the Italian Caribinieri and was captured by the Nazis after the invasion of Italy and they pulled his fingernails, toenails and teeth with a pair of pliers because he tripped and dropped a box while he was a POW. I'm sure he would have preferred waterboarding any day.
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By moneyosMay 20, 2008 - 10:43pmBy moneyosMay 20, 2008 - 10:43pm
No he wouldn't you ass.
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By f u bush2May 20, 2008 - 10:48pmBy moneyosMay 20, 2008 - 10:43pm
Damn, gramps was one dumb fucker, wasn't he? He couldn't avoid capture or even carry a freaking box?
You're living proof that he obviously didn't marry his way into improving the family gene pool. What a waste.
Support the Troops
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By Guy FawkesMay 20, 2008 - 11:36pmQ: how can you tell
a terrorist has been waterboarded?
A: he says so.
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By its_so_overMay 20, 2008 - 11:00pmHow can you tell "its_so_over"'s mom from a pile of shit?
Kick it and see if it responds.
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By f u bush2May 20, 2008 - 11:02pmBy f u bush2May 20, 2008 - 11:02pm
I think that your shoe's probably gonna smell like ass either way.
Support the Troops
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By Guy FawkesMay 20, 2008 - 11:12pmA serious post on topic
My sense of connection to the US and its citizens is that I am part of a nation that sets high ethical and moral standards. My nation is suppose to be for the betterment of mankind. It is suppose to promote a more enlightened state of being and be an example for the rest of the world.
If the US continues to show itself to be barbaric and lower itself to the standards of lesser nations then why should I feel any affinity to the US?
When the US is attacked like it was on 9/11 I share a feeling of loss because fellow citizens of a nation that is worth being proud of have been killed and injured. But if you take away the reasons I should be proud of my country then why should I feel anything special about people I do not know just because of a border? In a nation I can't be proud of, my only concern is for people I know. And terrorist attacks on the US mean little to me unless they hurt people I know in that scenario.
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By f u bush2May 20, 2008 - 11:36pmQ: How can you tell
a Liberal's been phucking his sister?
A: He says so (and you can't get him to shut up about it).
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By its_so_overMay 20, 2008 - 11:42pmHow do you tell if a contard has just had sex?
He keeps washing his dick and the family dog can't shit for a week.
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By thaelmann37May 21, 2008 - 9:51pmChuck Hagel Takes On McCain, Repeatedly Praises Obama
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By f u bush2May 21, 2008 - 12:01amChuck Hagel Takes On McCain, Repeatedly Praises Obama
video at link
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By f u bush2May 21, 2008 - 12:04amGuy
You sure are hostile. You're a wife beater aren't you? Or is it significant other beater?
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By moneyosMay 21, 2008 - 12:37amOh wait
It must be life partner beater...
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By moneyosMay 21, 2008 - 12:41amFuck you, Tommy
Pissed off because you killed your fish again?
You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury
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By LiberalIconoclastMay 22, 2008 - 8:03pmHow many sock puppets
Does tommy have?
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By f u bush2May 21, 2008 - 1:18amAll I know is.....
.....that my man Obama sure is being left a mess and a couple ticking time bombs as well.
The ironic thing is...he'll probably be left holding the bag with the myriad of consequences which will stem from Guantanimo to name one.
He closes it down....he's left holding the bag on anything any released prisoners do or those that are aquitted through trial.
He keeps it open.....international cred problems not to mention some pissed off supporters...
He's definately gonna have his hands full....
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By SgtDMay 21, 2008 - 7:10amBy SgtDMay 21, 2008 - 7:10am
I'll lay "dimes to doughnuts" (wait that doesn't work anymore because dougnuts cost way more than a dime), that as soon as he becomes the nominee and gets his first National Security Brief we're gonna see a different tune sung or he will just no longer mention it (kind of a "pocket veto"). When was the last time he (or any candidate) called for the closing of JTF-GTMO?
The best way to end this conflict is to start a draft (al la Charles Rangel). One of two things will happen.
A. 300K men on the ground will "tame" this insurgent crap
B. 60s style demonstrations will force our elected officials to end it
Either way, it's over....
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 21, 2008 - 8:33amI share your opinion about the draft....
...even though I'm definately conflicted on it...
The all-volunteer military has been great in regard to improvements to pay/housing ect. I can't complain....I'm an E-7 and I've been pretty happy with my career.
....on the other hand, I think an all-volunteer military makes it easier for the prez to use the military as in Iraq. Joe mainstreet doesn't have to worry about his son or daughter getting drafted so even if he dissagree's with the war it doesn't really hit home. Same goes for college kids...they were really the engine behind the 60's / 70's demonstrations against the war. College kids today have some activism as demonstrated by their turnout in the primaries but once again...they may be against the war but there isn't the danger of them being called up....doesn't really hit home.
A draft would ensure total commitment of the nation and sacrifice.....just isn't the case now.
The draft is a hot potato though....don't think we'll ever see it again unless something really drastic happens.
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By SgtDMay 22, 2008 - 1:11amBy SgtDMay 22, 2008 - 1:11am
My opinion on the draft is that we should have a volunteer army but when a conflict breaks out, a draft is begun once some criteria is satisfied. Something like a minimum number of troops deployed to a region or after a minimum number of guard are called up. Some milestone that when reached sets the draft in motion.
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By f u bush2May 22, 2008 - 1:16amI could go with that....
.....and one of my main gripes with the war (besides thinking it was stupid to begin with) is that if it was so damned important to national security.....why not ask the nation to sacrifice?
By that I mean...A) Draft B) some kind of "war tax" to pay for it....
The nation simply wasn't asked to sacrifice for this war....we are but it's kind of like putting charges on your credit card.
They tried to prosecute this war on the cheap to make it more palatable to the public....too few troops/no draft ect....
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By SgtDMay 22, 2008 - 1:34amBy f u bush2May 22, 2008 - 1:16am
That makes sense as most conflicts in recent history (Geneda, Panama and Gulf War pt 1) are of a scale that makes a draft unreasonable. We have "Selective Service" that gives the ability to summon troops as needed. Once this thing went past the initial invasion and became a nation building operation, a draft was really necessary.
"My presidency will be al Qaeda's worst nightmare." -John McCain Sep 4, 2007
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By Fight4itMay 22, 2008 - 7:21amneed more torture there :)
need more torture there :)
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By ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪May 22, 2008 - 2:04pmre: By ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ May 22, 2008 - 2:04pm
You're a moron, Tommy!
♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪
"Three great forces rule the world: stupidity, fear and greed." -- Albert Einstein
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By GazmikMay 22, 2008 - 3:54pmTommy practices torture...
On his fish! He needs to get his "skills" up to work in the KBR camps.
You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury
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By LiberalIconoclastMay 22, 2008 - 8:04pmsimple math
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By f u bush2May 22, 2008 - 3:58pm