Congratulations Al Franken!
Welcome back Doing Time fans! Ron had a restful vacation and he's primed to talk about all of your favorite stories! Gaza! Bribeovich! Richardson! Breast feeding!
Additionally, we'll probably also talk about the probable senate win for Al Franken. To celebrate, allow us to pass along this video of the future senator from the great state of Minnesota. Mr. Franken, err Senator Franken, does a mean Mick Jagger.
Thanks to Boing Boing for the clip!
- FILED UNDER: Arts & Culture
- January 5, 2009
why does this uninformed idiot get to speak on the show?
is he just your foil? is that his purpose?
it's embarrassing to me as Leftist, his lack of knowledge on so many subjects, from Palestine to sexism to the environmental harm of plastic grocery bags, etc.
why does he get to talk out of his butt on such serious topics as Israel's current war on Gaza? it pains me to listen to, and it's NOT why I tune into Air America. I could watch FoxNoise or listen to Hannity or Rush if I wanted uninformed nonsense
argh
here's a video that illustrates my point above
check this out
click on the words "check this out" in previous comment
it's weird they do their links almost the same color as test here at AIR and without an underline either
video is a short and funny smackdown of Joe from msnbc
Get your facts
Dan Pashman. You said that Israel has supported a two-state solution (with the Palestinians?) since 1948. Not true. The Palestinians were not in the equation until the 1970s. For instance, Palestinians were not mentioned in UN 242 in the late 1960s. Anyway, Israel has long rejected the two-state solution. Gabriel Kolko does a good summary of the history--up to the 1980s-- in his book "Confronting the Third World".
The Palestinians and
The Palestinians and surrounding Arab countries rejected the 2 state solution in 1947, and declared war on Israel instead. They also rejected a 2 state solution in 2000.
Early History of Israel
Here is a good book on the subject:
The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities, by Simha Flapan
As for the Taba negotiations in 2000, it was Ehud Barak who backed away from the two-state solution, not Arafat.
At Camp David in 2000, the
At Camp David in 2000, the failure to reach an agreement is largely attributed to Arafat, who walked away from the table. President Clinton wrote in his book, "My Life" that Arafat once complimented Clinton by telling him, "You are a great man." Clinton responded, "I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you made me one."
I guess it depends on where
I guess it depends on where you get your information from. This is a good article:
http://www.danielgordis.org/Site/Site_ViewDispatches.asp?id=22
tell me more about Palestinians rejecting 2-states in 1947
that's a good one
then perhaps you can tell me about Sharon and the Likud promising to high heaven that they will never ever allow a Palestinian state, and how Sharon figured by pulling out of Gaza yet locking it down with strict embargo would undermine chances of a palestinian state ever being achieved
please, tell me more, but try to keep it factual
AlFranken
does a super Mick Jagger.
Dan Pashman
Talk about the embargo Israel has maintained, Pashman.
Warsaw?
Can we compare the siege with the Warsaw Ghetto uprising?
Hamas has cynically and
Hamas has cynically and deliberately put ordinary Palestinians in harm's way by establishing its terrorist infrastructure – manufacturing, storage, training and strategic planning – within densely populated areas, in the midst of homes, schools, mosques and hospitals. Israel has procedures to warn civilians though leafleting and phone calls, that their neighborhoods and buildings are located in the vicinity of military operations and urging them to leave the area.
Civilian injuries and death are regrettable and tragic. But Hamas specifically targets civilians while Israel specifically targets terrorists.
that's rich: Civilian injuries and death are regrettable... BUT!
the BUT is the tell in that statement. the note about regretability is just lip service
as for Israel's targets, how many terrorists did they get in those UN schools today?
It's hard for me to take
It's hard for me to take someone called "fartknocker" seriously, but....
The target was not the school, the missle struck nearby, where Hamas fire was coming from. Who was the target of the rocket that fell in Gadera today? And in Sderot? And in Ashkelon?
Hamas was warned repeatedly that Israel would do this after they broke the cease fire and they continued to fire rockets into Israel for the past month. This outcome is exactly what they wanted and expected. It's so sad and unfortunate for the civilians that they are controlled by a terrorist organization that uses civilian areas for their terrorist activities.
But my question for you, Fartnocker, is What exactly would you like Israel to do??? Obviously giving the Palestianians more land is not the answer, everyone warned that this would happen when they left Gaza. So please tell me how you think Israel should respond to repeated and contstant terrorist attacks?
okay, answer: get the f*** out of the palestinian's way
Israel can't kill its way to palestinian submission. palestinians will continue to fight for their rights until the end of time (or until israel kills every last one of them in some sort of final solution). some palestinians will even resist violently. even if israel now could kill or cower every last member of hamas, there will be brothers and sisters of innocents killed in gaza today who will pick up arms and fight. israel is creating more enemies now than it is creating peace or security for itself
of course, israel was not created with "please" and "thank yous" either -- it was established by bloody force of arms.
I don't think most israelis want palestinians to have a state and would prefer they remain in a sort of stone age subjugation for all time. talk of a palestinian state is just lip service, or else it would have happened by now. for the slavemaster to say they'd grant the slaves freedom except that the slaves don't act right is just BS. there is no excuse whatsoever for slavery, or apartheid, or whatever you want to call the current situation. and israel didn't just "leave" gaza in 2005, they locked it down into the largest prison in the world, toying with fuel supplies, food, medicine, water, guaranteeing mass palestinian suffering. israel didn't just get out of the way and let the palestinians develop a society. israel make life worse for gazans with cruel restrictions. and the gazans are supposed to just blindly accept this and do nothing, not fight back, not shoot rockets in vain contempt for their slavemasters?!?
in short, get the f*** out of the palestinian's way and stop trying to blame the slave for their slavery
Hmm... looks like you really
Hmm... looks like you really need to educate yourself more on this topic to get the facts straight (ie, Israel was attacked in 1947 and fought only to defend herself, Palestinians in Gaza destroyed the land that the Israelis left behind, a majority of Israelis support a two-state solution, etc.). Until then, I can't engage in an intellectual debate with you.
Good luck.
The Israeli and Palestinian Conflict
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQObib1XfMY