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MSNBC Drops The News Ball

By Lionel

Maybe I had too much sauterne yesterday.  Maybe I OD'd on turkey tryptophan and was in fact asleep, or sleepwalking -- postprandial somnambulism, perhaps.  But while all hell was breaking loose at the Taj and terrorists ran amuck in Mumbai, and every legitimate news source and network seized the obvious opportunity to provide some coverage and analysis -- hell, only the Weather Channel didn't cover some part of this horrid day -- MSNBC, I could have sworn, broadcasted a seemingly endless, all-day "Lockup: Raw" marathon.  You know, that news powerhouse "Lockup: Raw," part of the interminable "Lockup" series, which details in mind-numbing tele-vacuity various interviews with monosyllabic, cretinous felons.  The show serves one purpose, though; it ensures that these felonious Boeotians will never see the light of day if parole officers happen upon these miscreants and their addled depictions of life in the hoosegow.

"Lockup" was the centerpiece of MSNBC's post 10 PM and weekend programming even before the Dan Abrams era.  You remember Dan.  For reasons never understood by anyone, and I suspect even Dan, he was given some programming position of honcho-in-residence. Dan had his own lawyer-cum-media pundit show and neither MSNBC nor Dan had a clue as to what it was about.  Multiverse string theory is easier to figure out.  For my money, the 80's classic "Prisoner: Cell Block H" would have sufficed adequately.  Something about chicks behind bars . . . . Paging Dr. Freud!

But, no, yesterday when MSNBC had the chance to blow off its penal programming and put, literally, anyone in front of the camera, what, with a veritable endless stream of incredible, mind-boggling video, they went with mind-numbing.  Yet again.  "Anchor" Contessa Brewer, bless her heart, tried at the top of the hour on occasion to cobble together something vaguely relevant.  MSNBC even called this Mumbai massacre "Breaking News."  I'm no Fred Friendly, but it seems to me that after a couple of days, you might want to lose the "Breaking" angle. By MSNBC's standards, the Vietnam War was still "Breaking" through year five. I suspect that when you have a nifty "Breaking News" graphic in your package, you go with it.   

News is defined as "the presentation of a report on recent or new events in a newspaper or other periodical or on radio or television."  I'd like to emphasize the "new" portion, i.e that which is fresh or has just occurred.  Moreover, news involves a duty and responsibility of a "news" organization, or an organization that knows what it wants to be when it grows up, to report instanter when cataclysmic events -- like a terrorist massacre -- occur.  CNN was by far the winner, hands-down. (Remember when they made their name?  That's right, Gulf War I.) Even the Faux News crew was very good. And how couldn't you have been "good"?  For Chrissakes, these "news" networks will suspend programming for a high-speed chase, an Amber alert or some crazed deer that breaks into a hardware store in Skaneateles, NY.  If it's caught on security tape, it's gold.  These folks live and die by video, graphics and B-roll.  If it bleeds it leads; you know the news aphorisms, and this was news porn. What were or weren't they thinking?

Look, I want MSNBC to succeed.  But you have to lose this ridiculous prison filler and be news 24/7.  I don't care if it's the best of Dan Abrams.  No, wait. Let me think about that one.  What could have possibly been the reason not to blow off the Folsom Prison Hour for live coverage of a terrorist attack?  Go 'head.  Think about that one.  I'll wait.

Let me be clear; I'm a fan of MSNBC. I love "Morning Joe" and start my day with it every day. Those two lovable mismatches, Joe and Mika, make my day.  Incidentally, the show should now be called "AWOL Joe," but I digress. Olbermann and Rachel Maddow are the collective breaths of fresh air: smart, articulate, entertaining, and great counter-programming to O'Reilly, the lummox.  Andrea Mitchell is top shelf. Chris Matthews is sui generis.  But you have to know what you want to be when you grow up.  This story wrote itself.  There was nothing to report but merely showing the video. Explosions, fire, blood, mayhem, carnage -- TERRORISM!  Remember that.  And at the doorstep of an Obama inaugural, no less.  This was news network malpractice.  Hell, bring in some second stringer to just fill the void. Remember, this story was nothing but pictures.  Amy Winehouse could have anchored this. Terrorism, 140+ dead. Obvious and easy. But, alas, "Lockup."  "Raw," no less.

Phil Griffin, listen to your old pal, Lionel.  I'm right about this one. 

Comments

(90)

Here's some news:

November 28, 2008
Jamat-ud-Dawa (LET Political Wing) on Mumbai Attacks: "Not a Legitimate Tactic"
By Evan Kohlmann

In the aftermath of this week's terrorist attacks in Mumbai, Indian government officials and media outlets have already begun pointing a finger at Islamic militants in neighboring Pakistan -- particularly an organization known as Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET). The LET has been designated by the U.S. government as a proscribed foreign terrorist organization -- along with its accused political wing, Jamat-ud-Dawa (JUD).

Earlier this evening, I spoke via telephone with the official representative of JUD, Abdullah Muntazir, to discuss the situation in Mumbai and mounting allegations of involvement by LET and/or Pakistani Islamists. Muntazir strongly denied these charges, referring to the attacks as an "internal problem" for India. He repeatedly insisted to me, "we have nothing to do with it", and blamed Indian "propaganda" for "divert[ing] the attention of the public media" --- which he described as "their usual practice." Interestingly, during our conversation, Muntazir went even further and actually condemned the events that have taken place in Mumbai as needless "carnage": "Islam does not permit killing civilian people." He added, "I don't think that this is a legitimate tactic."
November 28, 2008 12:01 AM

"Not a legitimate tactic", eh?

Funny, that. It seems to have worked spectacularly well for Cowboy-hat Oathbreaker. Or did you conveniently ignore that "Thou shalt not kill" bit?

Now answer the question, loser.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Huh, misquoting scripture again, I see.

the correct term is "thou shall not murder". I guess the nuance escapes you. By the way, Congress authorized bush's actions.

By momofukuNovember 30, 2008 - 6:49pm

No wmd
No bin laden

Iraq was a war of opportunity for Bush cronies.

Bye dummy

A distinction made thousands

A distinction made thousands of years later in English common law.

Which translation are you relying on?

Is it "murder" or "kill"?

Is it "witch" or "sorcerer" or "poisoner"?

Is it "good will towards men" or "good will towards the children of Abraham"?

Does your copy include the books of Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, or Tobit?

Do try to keep up here. I know it's difficult for you being an unarmed child in a battle of wits, but I hold some hope for your eventual education and enlightenment.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Secular Progressives on a Losing Track

I find your "website" both curious and pathetic.

I have never seen so much bitterness, complaining, and immaturity at one site before. It is entertaining to see you far left liberals moaning and complaining about the movement of your messiah to the center. Didn't you all realize that was going to happen?

He's an empty suit for God's sake (sorry about the use of that word, S-Ps, I know it's not accepted in your lexicon)

Don't bother to spend too much time responding to me since my "one-time" logon provided by Airless America is all you guys are really worth, and I wouldn't dream of giving you a nickel in support.

Al Franken will lose in the courts, and you know it. Too bad for you. Thank God for us! And, Saxby Chambliss will win big time in Georgia as well. You S-Ps will be dying a slow painful death over the next few years, just wait and see.

The Fairness Doctrine will not work for you, nor will the AFL-CIO get paid back for supporting the messiah.

Thanks again. And to all of you lots of luck! not really.

Merry Christmas!

By RedistributionD...November 28, 2008 - 2:56pm

Another pathetic, irrelevant contard. It's nice that you could face your fears & crawl out from cowering underneath your bed to post your drivel. Now it's time to slink back underneath your race-car bed for the next 8 years.

Support the Troops.
End the Occupation.

RedistrubutionD

You nailed it right on the head. Most, not all on this site are just silly little people playing at revolution, like this was still the 60's.

GOD BLESS
JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU.

By momofukuNovember 28, 2008 - 9:04pm

Looky here. I guess that Dubya's latest progeny has already learned how to use the internets. Way to go, little guy! You should probably work on gaining a little weight though.

Bush Passes Three-Pound Kidneystone

WASHINGTON—President Bush collapsed in the Oval Office after spontaneously expelling a 3-pound kidney stone from his bladder, sources reported Tuesday. According to witnesses, the president was attending his daily Iraq War briefing when he suddenly began shrieking loudly and clutching his abdomen, a mixture of blood and urine pooling rapidly around his feet. Bush was able to maintain consciousness through more than 20 minutes of excruciating pain, even after the jagged, grapefruit-sized crystal aggregation shredded his urethra and dropped from his left pant leg, finally rolling to a stop on the presidential seal in the middle of the Oval Office carpet. Bush is resting comfortably at Bethesda Naval Hospital.

Support the Troops.
End the Occupation.

Merry Christians (leaving Iraq)

Bin Laden killing Americans again ....India

Bush and momo don't think its significant.

So Jesus was born close to the date of the winter solstice?

A date that the entire world celebrates in one fashion or the other.
That was convienient!
Actually, Dec. 25th was first made a state holiday by the emperor Aureilian in 274, in order to honor the god Sol Invictus. See, the emperors were trying to use religion to unite the Roman citizenry behind the Roman state- they decided monotheism would work great.
In the end Christianity won out, not through providence, but simply because it was the oldest and best established montheistic cult in the Empire. The Catholic sect beat the others to the punch and gave up that silly stuff about brotherhood and peace on earth. Their reward was to become the state religion of the Roman Empire.
The real reason for the season is to celenrate the fact that friggin' winter isn't going to last forever and the gods are bringing the sun back. So put up the Thule tree and drape it with the skins of the animals you sacrificed to the gods, Wotan conquered the frost giants again!

Redistribution of wealth?

Trillion dollars to the top one percent in a "so called" bailout.
12 billion a month in no bid contracts to American companies in Iraq (still no new roads or electricity, or running water, or...)
Bush giving out 363 TONS of 100 dollar bills of American taxpayer money in Iraq.
Tax breaks to oil companies as well as the largest companies in America.
Billions thrown at companies in no bid contracts after Katrina.
Secret illegal meetings with oil companies to decide America's energy policy (we see the results)

This has been the greatest redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the top 1% in world history.

Then, you have these toothless Republicans who don't even live a "double-wide", who have no job, live on welfare and have no health insurance complaining that their imaginary "wealth" is being redistributed? Can this be happening?

These are the same people that believe "Noah's Ark" is a historical event and man lived with dinosaurs a la "Flintstones".

And then, they have the nerve to mock those that see the truth? As they sit there, pointing fingers, laughing, drooling, and complaining about the AFLCIO as executives get hundreds of millions for running American companies into the ground and shipping jobs overseas to toothless people that can't afford health insurance, and can't afford to live in a "double-wide".

They can't see the "irony" because they don't know what that means.

Good luck.

Hey deandd

You're still making up things as you go along, I see. None of you post has any factual merit. Just a lot of nothing. But, I would like to know where you get your information. I bet you just make it up as you go, don't you?

If you say the post

is not factual that means it is all true.

"Secular Progressives"? "S Ps"? You gotta be joking!

"Secular Progressives"? "S Ps"? You gotta be joking!

I think you just showed whatever "hand" you thought you had there. Obviously an O'Reilly watcher, as he is the ONLY one who uses that term. A term he made up himself and desperately repeats over and over in the hope it will somehow stick.
Unfortunately for you, all it managed to do for you is quickly put you into an even smaller and more easily labeled box of complete irrelevance.

BTW, you guys lost. BIG TIME. How's that bitter tasting right now?

Oh, wait...you were just joking , right?

See ya Rd!

Don't get hit by a bus or anything.
On second thought...

Ex-Defense Contractor Helps With Other Probes

Ex-Defense Contractor Helps With Other Probes
Friday, November 28, 2008; Page A07

Mitchell Wade, the former defense contractor who pleaded guilty in February 2006 to bribing former representative Randall "Duke" Cunningham (R-Calif.), has assisted the government in investigating five other members of Congress, numerous government employees and several private contractors, according to a memorandum filed by his attorney on Wednesday.

Although none of those members is named, two are under investigation, according to the memorandum, and "three others have come under scrutiny for their receipt of straw contributions" from former Wade employees and one for the possible receipt of undisclosed gifts.

Wade, who is scheduled to be sentenced Dec. 15, faces a minimum of nine years in prison. Instead, based primarily on his cooperation with government investigators, he is seeking to have that sentence reduced to "a year of home detention, a fine of $250,000, five years probation and substantial community service," according to the sentencing memorandum filed on his behalf by his attorney, Howard M. Shapiro.

Wade's cooperation, which was important in the Cunningham trial, "has led to the guilty pleas or conviction at trial of seven other individuals," said the memorandum, which was first publicly disclosed by Seth Hettena on his blog.

Hettena wrote that Wade supplied a searchable electronic database of 150,000 documents, including the "bribe menu," which described how much money Cunningham wanted for each act that he undertook.

US Army deserter seeks asylum in Germany over Iraq

US Army deserter seeks asylum in Germany over Iraq
Andreas Buerger
Reuters North American News Service
Nov 27, 2008 14:36 EST

FRANKFURT, Nov 27 (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier who deserted his unit to avoid returning to Iraq has applied for asylum in Germany, saying the Iraq war was illegal and that he could not support the "heinous acts" taking place.

Andre Shepherd, 31, who served in Iraq between September 2004 and February 2005 as an Apache helicopter mechanic in the 412th Aviation Support Battalion, has been living in Germany since deserting last year.

"When I read and heard about people being ripped to shreds from machine guns or being blown to bits by the Hellfire missiles I began to feel ashamed about what I was doing," Shepherd told a Frankfurt news conference on Thursday.

"I could not in good conscience continue to serve."

Shepherd, originally from Cleveland, Ohio and ranked as an army specialist, applied for asylum in Germany on Wednesday, said Tim Huber from the Military Counseling Network, a non-military group which is assisting him.

...

So, fu obama, a deserter is your hero?

I bet you would like to be just like him, when you grow up.

I'm sorry...remind us again

I'm sorry...remind us again when you served?

He never did

The closest he ever got to serving was playing Halo for six hours, until a nine-year-old kicked his ass at it.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Why? Whats it to you?

It really is none of your business, when and where I served. Did you serve? Are you trying to say that only those that serve can support our troops, this war, (that by the way, was declared on us), etc? Why exactly did you ask that question? By the way, I did serve.

You served 1 year in prison

for welfare fraud in 1979. Arent you proud?

No. I'm saying that if you

No. I'm saying that if you haven't served during wartime, you have no business criticizing this soldier. Please...feel free to rhapsodize on topics about which you know nothing at all. I did not serve, since the military at the time wouldn't accept single parents, particularly in my family circumstances.

My father and uncle served in Vietnam (special forces), my cousin served in Gulf War I, Bosnia, and Gulf War II and left the military because of the policies of the Bush administration, another special forces soldier. My husband is an officer, a war veteran as well. I know the difference between someone who'd tough and a case of keyboard courage.

That's a bunch of BS.

Especially when one deserts during war. It is one thing to stand for your convictions, but another to run from them. If, as you say, you have had family who served, they will tell you, it is not, I repeat, is not his right to dictate government policy. If he disagrees with policy, then his only honorable option is to refuse to serve and suffer the consequence's, not run away. In wartime, he can be shot, as other deserters have been throughout the history. ?And by the way, what right do you have to tell me who I can and cannot criticize? And under what circumstances? And FYI, how do you know when I served? I am a Vietnam era vet, and proud of it.

And thank your family for their service.

You are a convicted welfare cheat

former heroin addict, and all around liar. Nothing more.

You don't sound like you

You don't sound like you know enough about the military to have served. Anyone who has, especially during Vietnam, would know the penalty for desertion is a jail sentence, the last soldier shot for desertion during war time was in 1945. Given the considerable number of desertions during Vietnam, they'd have been executing a lot of soldiers, so it seems even the military may comprehend something that should be obvious to you. I don't have any particular respect for deserters, but given the circumstances of this war, I find it more comprehensible. Not the right thing, but comprehensible.

I didn't mean to imply that you should be prevented from flapping your lips, only that you should view what comes out with more care.

Again, you are wrong.

And I don't have to tell you anything about my service. USN, Assault Craft, Unit One, Gunners Mate. Coronado, Ca. I left as a E-5. And if you re-read my post, I didn't say they will get the death penalty, I said they could. That is STILL on the books. Just because it is usually not applied, in this day and age, does not negate that fact. And again, he should stand up and take the consequence's of his actions, instead of running away. That is being principled, in my opinion.

By momofukuNovember 30, 2008 - 11:28am

hatey is the boy who cried wolf. He's such a liar, no one knows what to believe. Then again who cares?

There was a word for that.

I served. 82C in Headquarters Battery of the 3d Battalion, 16th Field Artillery, 8th Infantry Division.

However, I'm ashamed at the lack of support this country has shown to the military with the Conservatards being the worst. Sending our soldiers off to fight a "war" with guns that jam, vehicles they need to weld metal too so they can be a tiny bit safe, no bid contracts to companies that rip our soldiers off charging 30 bucks for a six pack of Coke and making them sick by giving them dirty water.

And then idiot assholes like Momo saying we have almost "won" the war when they can't define what that even means.

They give a "ho-hum" when you point out articles in the new Iraq constitution hostile to "freedom".

Article (2):
1st — Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic source of legislation:
(a) No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam.

They "yawn" when you bring up the Christians and the Christian religion in Iraq which has been decimated by 1/2 to two thirds with Christians beheaded and crucified.

There eyes grow heavy and their head tilts forward when you talk about the massive number of people killed and monetary cost of the war.

Conservatards "cheered" when dozens of Arabic translators were discharged leaving our sons and daughters unable to communicate in a hostile and dangerous land.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKSAJdLLwzc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-NA1ZTZ-iM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nIcKrcDjg0

Conservatards don't support out troops. Not since before the beginning of the "war". Not only do they "don't" support them, they are openly hostile to our troops putting them in danger and then turning their backs on them. When I was in the service, there was a word for that. "Treason".

This is how people who've

This is how people who've actually served answer the question, momofuku.

By f u bush2 November 28, 2008 - 3:17pm

I'm so thankful for the groups that are assisting people like Shepherd.

Given that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, the commander in chief has violated the constitution, and that the military is now using stop loss measures to keep soldiers in the military for multiple tours of duty in war zones; I have plenty of respect for any soldier who decides enough is enough.

Excuse me, but the battle in Iraq was proposed by the President,

and approved by congress. Nothing in the constitution was violated. For some reason, you neo-com's refuse to face facts, which are contained in the congressional record. You keep flapping your lips, about things you really know nothing about.

No talk of Bin Laden with Bush spinning his nano-legacy

Remember Binky Laden? Droopy face?...setting safe in mountains above India and Pakistan?...panaramic veiw of Mumbai, Islamabad, and Kabul?

"Top of the world, ma!"

Bush--the great liberator of pick-n-choose, cut-n-run military stategy.

Exactly what good will it do to capture or kill OBL?

All it will really do is make him a martyr, which in turn, enhances his stature in that part of the world. Right now, he is made to seem to be weak and ineffectual. I guess you people are unfamiliar with the psychological aspects of this war, as well as not really knowing the enemy. Oh, wait, I forgot, to you people, Bush is the enemy, and OBL is just some poor misguided fool, who needs to be given assess to American courts so that he can use the court as a pulpit to continue spreading his hate against western culture.

What nonsense momodork

The Bush strategy to iignore Bin Laden, after chasing him half-heartedly , has jeopardized the overall world security, as let Laden's organization grow exponentially.

Bin Laden has beaten Bush by outlasting him, and interupting his last days as limp-dick president, with fresh attacks in new territory. Skillet-head Bush leaves office, completely handled by Laden, his tail between his legs.

Can you document this so called Bush Strategy?

I didn't think so.

Fact is, you don't know a thing about military actions. First thing you do is a cost assessment, re: casualties. Bottom line is, OBL is very much marginalized. He has lost stature in that part of the world. This is a war of ideas and psychology, as well as physical battles. On both all counts, we are succeeding.

There isn't anything to document

Cowboy-hat Oathbreaker's "strategy," if it's deserving of the term, revolved around a single word: profit. He went after Iraq, a country that posed absolutely no threat to the United States, in search of that profit, instead of remaining in Afghanistan and finishing the more immediate and critical task of eliminating both bin Laden and the Taliban.

4,207 American service members, and counting, have donated their entire blood supply to that "strategy."

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Tojo was marginalized by 1944

but we caught him and put him on trial for war crimes.
OBL put into action several large scale terrorist actions that have killed thousands of people. And conservotards like you just wave him aside and say, " I don't really worry about him."
Amazing, the lengths to which you clowns go to avoid admitting that you were wrong.
Your " war" is a fantasy, something manufactured, marketed to the weak minded and easily led. We aren't fighting a " War on Terror" anymore than the Japanese were fighting " bandits" in China. The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan are nothing more than brutal occupations to seize natural resources or the routes for transporting those resources.

Remember these?

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

"...Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...."
- Bush, in remarks in a Press Availablity with the Press Travel Pool,
The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on
official White House site

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

Next question...

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Bush went after surrounded, defanged Saddam

Rather then face a more dangerous enemy he was scared of.

Bush went after Saddam

Bush went after Saddam because if he actually caught Bin Laden, he wouldn't have a boogeyman to hold over our heads, to start his War for Profit.

Remember when we were the land of the free and the home of the brave? The Bush administration has taught us to duct tape ourselves in our homes, to be scared of anyone who isn't a white-bread ignoramus who doesn't know flag-waving from patriotism. He attempted to change the mindset to the land of the surveilled and the home of the frightened, and I'm glad to see that the American people are better than that, they rejected his philosophy of avarice and cowardice.

Texas DA's Cheney Indictment Evidence Revealed (VIDEO)

Texas DA's Cheney Indictment Evidence Revealed (VIDEO)
HuffPost | Dan Duray | November 28, 2008 02:40 PM

Juan Angel Guerra, the Texas DA who indicted both Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales recently revealed the evidence that led him to the indictment in the case that he had codenamed "Operation Goliath". Cheney is accused of responsibility in prisoner abuse because of his financial ties to the Vanguard Group, which invests in private prison companies. Guerra estimates that Cheney has $85 million invested in Vanguard, a financial stake that Guerra says motivated the vice president to halt a 2006 investigation into a prisoner's death.

Video at link

By f u bush2 November 28, 2008 - 10:42pm

Anyone happen to know the most recent example of a sitting Vice President being indicted?
Mmmmm. Juicy. Lookin' forward to the next update from News Channel 5. Keep me posted...
____________________
"Don't be a Dick."

Spiro Theodore Agnew

Nixon's VP.

You can pretty much timeline all Republicans as worthless self-interested scum.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiro_Agnew

Bush lied

 bush lied

Bush is giving either his IQ or his sperm count.

That is the largest number Bush can count to.

This is the US president. How embarrassing. Seriously, the conservatards still support this shitstain on American politics. How can they look at this guy and not see a fool?

You are getting tiresome, oh little one with a little one.

Transcript of Event: "The Jihadists' Revolt Against Al Qaeda"
By Andrew Cochran

On September 23, the Counterterrorism Foundation and New America Foundation held a live panel discussion on Capitol Hill with Peter Bergen, CTB Contributing Experts Evan Kohlmann and Paul Cruickshank, and guest commentator Maajid Nawaz to discuss "The Jihadists' Revolt Against Al Qaeda: Why Some of Al Qaeda’s Old Allies Have Turned Against It." You can view New America's video of that panel, and you can download a transcript, thanks to Assistant Newslink Editor Brett Wallace. Here are excerpts from the panel:

Peter Bergen: "There are two central fronts in the war on terror, Iraq and the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. What happened with Al Qaeda in Iraq, it was an assisted suicide, we helped their suicide and so did the Sunni awakening. They had five problems. First they have terrible leadership. Al Masri who runs AQI is not Zarqawi, Zawahiri or Osama Bin Laden, he is a bad leader. Second is organization. Third is ideological problems, they can’t make compromises. They also have made a lot of enemies such as the 1920’s Brigade. Many of the recruits that have come to Iraq are gone because they commit suicide. The fact that we have seen female suicide attacks is a sign of weakness, not strength.

We know what these groups are against but what are they for? There is no al Qaeda minister of employment, Al Qaeda school, or Al Qaeda social welfare organization. There is not a category of government they have said they are not against, Russia, China, the West, Israel, Shiites and so on. Because of this problem they can’t turn themselves into political movements."

Even Kohlmann: "Arguably over any other issue, the predominant topic of discussion, controversy—and often schism—within the Salafi-Jihadi discourse has revolved around the justifications for deliberately killing other Sunni Muslims, including both innocent civilians and competing mujahideen fighters.

Nowhere else has that debate become more evident and problematic for Salafi-Jihadi leaders than in Iraq, where the insurgency has recently undergone a series of fundamental shifts. First, a wide array of prominent Sunni insurgent factions—including the Islamic Army in Iraq (IAI), the 1920 Revolution Brigades, Iraqi Hamas, and Asaeb al-Iraq al-Jihadiya (to name just a few)—have become embroiled in bitter public feuds with Al-Qaida’s “Islamic State of Iraq” (ISI) over the latter’s aggressive insistence that all Sunni insurgent groups join together under the banner of the ISI. The combined impact of this has undeniably had a debilitating impact on the long-term political viability of Al-Qaida and the ISI."

Paul Cruickshank: "But what we have seen recently emerge in the UK is a backlash against Al Qaeda. While a small group of people have been energized by Al Qaeda’s escalating violence, this group of hardcore extremists is becoming more isolated. The July 7 London bombings and the carnage that Al Qaeda has produced in Iraq and other Muslim countries has made a significant number of British Muslims, who were once on the fence when it came to Al Qaeda, turn firmly against them. I think that one can now say that the Muslim community in Britain is finally waking up to the threat of Al Qaeda terrorism. Moreover, the fact that Jihadists are now taking on Al Qaeda has made it considerably easier for moderates to criticize the terrorist organization.

In the UK there are signs that the radicals are on the back foot. Just anecdotally, I can tell you that attendance seems to be down at events organized by groups supportive of Al Qaeda compared to a few years ago. I asked a leading pro-Al Qaeda militant in the UK about the many empty chairs at one such event this summer and he conceded that it was becoming more difficult to attract young Muslims to such meetings. British authorities have taken advantage of the emerging Jihadist critique of Al Qaeda by pragmatically engaging with Jihadists and Salafists critical of Al Qaeda, while cracking down on the real problem groups. The British government’s approach is to try to isolate the violent extremists."

Maajid Nawaz: "All terrorist jihadist organizations, not meaning Hamas here, but the international global Islamists, they are all Wahhabi in nature and share that creed. Whether you look at North Africa or Lashkar-e-Taiba, they are Wahabi in creed and Islamist in politics. By embracing former terrorists who are still Islamists, there is a danger of a short term tactical gain and a long term ideological loss. By empowering former jihadists, who are yet to recant Islamism itself, are we reinforcing the same ideology that produced terrorism, and if it doesn’t produce it again there is a danger at the very least that they could obtain power and establish a totalitarian state that does not believe in national borders and will conquer neighbors."
October 2, 2008 12:50 PM Print

Do you have a source document for that?

You copy and paste a date and author (whom I can find using Google only on right wing blogs), but no citation of your source document. I can therefore assume that you have just wasted valuable webspace and bandwidth posting yet one more opinion piece.

Is this the kind of entertainment I can expect Friday at Barnes & Noble? Jesus H. Christ, I'd rather read their kids' books! Higher level of intellect.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Bush--just another common everyday chump reactor

It feeds into Bin Laden's plans to frighten leaders into sudden over-reaction.

Hot-headed extreme marshall over-reactions can result in the baby being thrown out with the bathwater.

All this with little expense, like matchs placed betwixt the toes of sleeping giants.

Friday: 21 Iraqis Killed, 58 Wounded

Friday: 21 Iraqis Killed, 58 Wounded
Updated at 6:35 p.m. EST, Nov. 28, 2008

A mosque run by Sadr followers was the target of a suicide bomber in Mussayab. At least 12 people were killed and 19 others were wounded as they were gathering at a security checkpoint before Friday prayers.

In Baghdad, a suicide car bomber killed two people and wounded 14 in a central neighborhood. A blast occurred near a U.S. base in Sadr City; one person was wounded.

In Mosul, two more people died overnight from wounds received in yesterday's bombing; 12 more wounded were also reported, bringing the totals up to four dead and 40 wounded.

Iraqi army soldiers raided a booby-trapped home near Baquba, where two of them were killed and three more wounded.

Four policemen were wounded during a bombing in Khanaquin.

A bomb in Duluiya wounded three policemen.

In Missan province, 1,650 police recruits graduated from their training courses.

Five al-Qaeda suspects were arrested in Tahrir.

A Katyusha rocket fell on a home in Kut, killing a child and wounding two other family members. Nine suspects were arrested.

And you want us to model our country after the french?

Police Treatment of Journalist Prompts Outcry in France

By Edward Cody
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, November 30, 2008; A21

PARIS, Nov. 29 -- The knocks on his door came at 6:40 a.m., Vittorio de Filippis recalled, when Paris was still dark and he was fast asleep. Three police officers -- a pair of men and a woman, all wearing armbands -- had come to take him in.

By the time his ordeal ended five hours later, about 11:30 a.m. Friday, the journalist wrote, he had been manhandled, handcuffed, humiliated in front of his sons, twice forced to strip and submit to body cavity searches and interrogated without lawyers by an investigating magistrate -- all over a two-year-old libel case.

The treatment meted out to Filippis, an executive and former editor in chief of the Paris newspaper Liberation, prompted an outcry Saturday from his colleagues, lawyers and other supporters, who said the tactics were out of place in a country with long and cherished traditions of rule of law and freedom of expression.

The case created a perfect media storm in a country whose citizens love nothing better than a good argument over grand principles. Liberation, a reliably left-wing daily that got its start during the youth uprising of 1968, was well cast for the role of victim. And the police, who have wide latitude in handling suspects under French law, were a natural target for opponents of President Nicolas Sarkozy's law-and-order approach to government.

"In 30 years, this is the first time I have heard of or seen such a thing," said Jean-Paul Levy, one of the newspaper's attorneys. "I am scandalized that this kind of treatment would be inflicted on him over an offense that is only punishable by a fine and not by prison."

Reporters Without Borders, a media advocacy group, condemned what it called "coercive methods" and said they were a sign of "deterioration in press freedom in France." In a statement, the group said: "We are outraged by the unacceptable methods used against Vittorio de Filippis and their humiliating nature. Such a thing has never before been heard of in France. To treat a journalist like a criminal and resort to practices such as body searches is not only shocking but unworthy of French justice."

The Socialist Party's parliamentary spokeswoman, Aurélie Filippetti, denounced what she called "the scandalous conditions" of Filippis's interrogation. She portrayed his treatment as part of an effort, "yet again, to put limits on freedom of the press," suggesting that Sarkozy's government was trying to clamp down on its critics, among whom Liberation would have to rank near the top.

The investigating magistrate, Muriel Josie, refused requests from French journalists for an explanation of what happened. The police issued no formal comment. But Agence France-Presse, the country's main news agency, quoted anonymous police officials as saying that Filippis was hauled in because he had not responded to mailed summons and received rough treatment because he talked back to the "irreproachable" officers who had come to his door.

Filippis, in a detailed account published Saturday by Liberation, said Josie questioned him about a lawsuit brought against the newspaper last year. The suit concerned an opinion article contributed by an Internet commentator and published by Liberation's Web site that described past legal troubles of Xavier Niel, founder of a French Internet access company called Free.

Filippis led the newspaper from May to December 2006, when the article appeared, and thus was responsible under French law. But Josie's main complaint, he wrote, was that he had ignored her mailed summons, forcing her to resort to the arrest warrant. He replied, he said, that he routinely relayed to his attorneys all communications related to the case and that their names and telephone numbers, as well as his own, were in the directory.

Aside from the legal case, the uproar focused mainly on how Filippis was treated by police on his way to the interrogation. In what Filippis acknowledged was a heated exchange, the officers who showed up at his home barred him from calling his attorneys and ordered him to get dressed and go with them.

"Awaked by the noise, my elder son, who is 14, witnessed the whole scene," he wrote in Liberation. "His brother, who is 10, did not come out of his room, but I learned afterward that he was awakened and took this moment very badly."

He continued: "I told the cops that there was perhaps another way to conduct themselves. The response in front of my son: 'You, you are worse than scum.' "

After a stop at the suburban Raincy police station, near his home, Filippis said, he was handcuffed with his arms behind his back and driven to the main Paris courthouse beside the Seine River in the center of the city. After taking all his personal effects, police ordered him to strip and bend over for a body search, he said, before locking him in a cell.

"The room had a table, a roll of toilet paper, a concrete sleeping platform with two blankets," Filippis said. "I saw a toilet in a corner. I sat on the table to avoid the cockroaches and moths."

About 10 a.m., two officers escorted him down a long corridor and ordered him to undress for another search. When he protested, Filippis said, he was told that the investigating magistrate had insisted on following procedure, and so he submitted a second time before being taken into Josie's office.

Josie said she had summoned him numerous times without success, he said, and asked him to identify his attorneys from a list of names. She refused his request to call the lawyers, he added, and so, in a testy exchange, he declined to respond further to her questions. After formally notifying him that he was being investigated in the libel case, she ordered him released, he said, and he found himself on the sidewalk in front of the courthouse.

Secondhand opinions don't make you look any smarter.

Now answer the question, loser.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Amnesty in torture warning over transfer of Iraqi detainees

Amnesty in torture warning over transfer of Iraqi detainees
Middle East News
Nov 28, 2008, 11:03 GMT

London - Amnesty International has warned that Iraqi detainees held by US forces would be at risk of torture, or even execution, if they were handed over to the Iraqi authorities following approval of the security agreement with the US.

Under the agreement, around 16,000 prisoners held by the US would be transferred to Iraqi custody, according to an Amnesty statement released in London Friday.

'The Status of Forces Agreement does not provide any safeguards whatsoever for prisoners transferred to Iraqi custody,' said Malcolm Smart, Director of Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa Programme.
'These prisoners will potentially be moving from the frying pan into the fire,' he warned.

'We receive persistent reports of gross human rights violations including torture taking place in Iraqi prisons and detention centres,' Smart said.

The US should ensure that no one was transferred to Iraqi custody if they faced a real risk of torture or other human rights violations.

Already, the Iraqi authorities were holding thousands of people, many without charge or trial, and often in appalling conditions, Amnesty said.

'We need to see evidence that there is systematic improvement.'

Round-up of Daily Violence in Iraq - Saturday 29 November 2008

Round-up of Daily Violence in Iraq - Saturday 29 November 2008

Baghdad

Three people were killed and 14 others were injured when a Katusha rocket hit the building of the UN in the Green Zone in downtown Baghdad around 6 a.m. Iraqi police said. The UN confirmed the incident saying that two people were killed and 15 others were wounded.

Four people were injured (2 civilians and 2 policemen) by a bomb in Gazaliyah neighborhood in west Baghdad around 10 a.m.

Three civilians were injured by an adhesive bomb stuck to a car of an employee in the ministry of interior affairs in Atifiyah neighborhood around 6 p.m.

A civilian was killed and three others were injured by a bomb in Karrada neighborhood in downtown Baghdad around 7 p.m.

Police found one unidentified body in Amin neighborhood.

Diyala

Police found 30 corpses of civilians in al Salam district north of Baquab city.

Nineveh

Gunmen killed two goldsmiths when they attacked their store in downtown Mosul city on Saturday afternoon. After the attack, the gunmen planted two bombs in the store. The bombs detonated when police and people gathered killing a policeman and injuring 18 others (11 policemen and 7 civilians)

So, your saying AI

has a right to interfere with Government policy? They get to dictate to Iraq how prisoners are treated? Poor Obama. What is he to do? Those poor innocent detainees, held at Gitmo, may get sent home, on his watch, because he has to close the facility, to placate you neo-coms. Sorry, fool, but thats the price they will have to pay. Because of you peoples ill thought out positions. If they do get tortured, upon returning to their countries of origin, it will be on your hands.

WTF are you on about now?

Even for you, that made no sense. For the sake of those around you if not for yourself, contact your local faith-based charity and get a voucher for an office visit to a psychiatrist and the medication that you will be prescribed.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

I am glad we have a stratergy

India's Terrorism Dilemma

By Hasnain Kazim in Mumbai

India has been rocked by a number of terror attacks in recent years. Still, the country has no over-arching strategy to confront the problem. The reasons are myriad.

The officer with the Indian Defense Ministry is searching for words. "What should we…? What should I…? It's…." His gaze turns away from the television where images from the attacks on Mumbai flicker across the screen -- distraught civilians, bloody scenes from around the city, politicians swearing revenge. Reports of new shootouts continue to pour in.

India has a security dilemma.
Zoom
Getty Images

India has a security dilemma.
The officer says his superiors have forbidden him from speaking to the press. But, he adds, "this is a time when no human, no Indian, can keep quiet." He asks, however, that his name not be used.

Still, he stares at the screen -- which is now showing scenes from earlier terrorist attacks in India and photos of the Islamists behind them. "These goddamned…" He struggles for the right term. "Bhenchod." Motherf….

All of India is struggling, just like the officer, to maintain their composure in the face of the attacks. It is all the more unsettling that even the police, the military, the security personnel -- the people who are never at a loss -- don't know what to say and don't know what to do. It is an image that makes one feel sympathy: the officer in his olive green uniform, decorations pinned on his breast, stands there with his head sunk to his chest mumbling as he watches television.

The officer's apparent helplessness is symbolic for India's fight against terrorists and religious fanatics. After each attack, politicians -- like Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has this week -- promise that they will "do all in their power" to hunt down those responsible. And there will no doubt be a number of police raids in the days to come. Arrests will be made. There may even be some guilty verdicts.

But a far-reaching strategy to combat terrorism remains non-existent.

There wouldn't be a Gitmo or a Mumbai attack without Bin Laden

There wouldn't be a Gitmo or a Mumbai attack without monetary support.

The day Bush commited himself to leave the Afghan theatre to Bin Laden, he personally shouldered the blame for continuing Bin Laden-supported recruitment, training, deployment, and attack.

Bush did not invent terrorism, he merely nurtured its institutionalization.

Bin Laden plays Bush like a musical instrument.

OBL is not the whole show, dude.

You fail to see reality, because of your ideological hatred of Bush.

It dosen't matter if Bin Laden is ¾ or 5/8 of the show

Bush underestimated Bin Laden's ability to regroup in a bigger way then he was before he was under Bush's nose. Any non-Laden groups (doubt there is any in a 500 mile radius of Tora Bora not related) would be so emboldened by Bush's incompetence to capture or even look for them. He sets a bad example . . . Now more Americans are dead in India, because of Bush's failure to act for years on the matter.

Yeah, so what. No one claims Bush is perfect.

Hell, Clinton underestimated OBL also. As well as the rest of the world. But you are wrong when you say OBL has regrouped etc. The whole Jihadist movement is on the decline. That is a fact. The world has finally had enough of these clowns, and are now shutting them down. This thing in India just shows how disparate they have become. And really has turned public opinion against them.

By momofukuNovember 30, 2008 - 4:49pm

LMAO! what a dummy.

You really are an idiot. You know that, don

Dawood Ibrahim's Name Again Surfaces With Latest Mumbai Terrorist Attack
By Victor Comras

It’s much too early to identify the group or groups involved in the Mumbai terrorist attack or to place blame for what has occurred. Identification will come with the expert police investigation and intelligence gathering now underway. But, at this stage we are all just involved in a process of speculation - drawing on past experience with terrorist modis operandi to explain what occurred and exploring the various various possibilities and theories. Among the possible culprits being considered are several Pakistan based Islamic extremist organizations such as Lashkar-e-Tayyiba; Al Qaeda-linked or wannabe groups, and India home grown terrorist groups. One thing appears clear - the attack was well planned and organized, and that requires reliance on a sophisticated network for recruitment, logistics, training and financing. Some Indian terrorist experts suggest that Dawood Ibrahim may well be linked to organizing and financing this attack just as he did for the 1993 Mumbai stock exchange terrorist bombings.

Dawood Ibrahim (birthname Sheikh Dawood Ibrahim Kaskar), for years headed the D-Company which ran a substantial hawala operation out of Mumbai, Karachi and Dubai. He reportedly moved easily between various Islamic extremist groups and Indian crime syndicates, and is believed to have acted as an Al Qaeda surrogate for several financial transactions and arms and drug smuggling deals. He was designated by the US Treasury Department as a global terrorist in October 2003, and listed as an Al Qaeda associate by the UN Al Qaeda and Taliban Sanctions Committee on November 3, 2003. According to the Treasury Department “Dawood Ibrahim, an Indian crime lord, has found common cause with Al Qaida, sharing his smuggling routes with the terror syndicate and funding attacks by Islamic extremists aimed at destabilizing the Indian government. He is wanted in India for the 1993 Bombay Exchange bombings and is known to have financed the activities of Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (Army of the Righteous), a group designated by the United States in October 2001 and banned by the Pakistani Government…” See also Treasury Fact Sheet on Dawood Ibrahim here

Ibrahim's current whereabouts is unknown. He is believed by some to have been given safehaven in Pakistan, perhaps in the Frontier Territories, although there have been some reports of his having been arrested by Pakistan authorities several years ago. Pakistan denies these reports and maintains that he has not been given any safehaven anywhere in Pakistan.

You can find more information about Dawood Ibrahim in articles posted last year by my colleagues Aaron Mannes and Doug Farah.

By momofukuNovember 30, 2008 - 5:00pm

Once again dummy doesn't provide a link.

A liar, an idiot and a spammer.

All for a goddam lie

Bases brace for surge in stress-related disorders
LOLITA C. BALDOR
AP News
Nov 29, 2008 09:44 EST

Some 15,000 soldiers are heading home to this sprawling base after spending more than a year at war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and military health officials are bracing for a surge in brain injuries and psychological problems among those troops.

Facing prospects that one in five of the 101st Airborne Division soldiers will suffer from stress-related disorders, the base has nearly doubled its psychological health staff. Army leaders are hoping to use the base's experiences to assess the long-term impact of repeated deployments.

...

Obama needs to drop Rubin - don't be stubborn like Bush

Obama criticised for economic team's link to failed bank chief
Edward Helmore in New York
guardian.co.uk, Sunday November 30 200

As Barack Obama prepares to announce the appointment of Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State this week, the first notes of dissent over the President-elect's choices are being heard across America.

The loudest complaints concern his economic team's ties to Citigroup, the banking behemoth that all but collapsed last weekend. In particular, criticisms are mounting over the role to be played by Robert Rubin, a director at Citigroup and President Clinton's former treasury secretary.

...

But with criticism of Rubin and loyal 'Rubinistas' threatening Obama's Washington debut, there is increasing concern that the President-elect's emphasis on appointing Clinton-era officials - a shadow Clinton term, as it has been called - could backfire as the very people who undertook financial deregulation in the Nineties are now directed to re-regulate a decade later.

'Where's the diversity on the economic team? It's not only all from the same small club, but from the club that brought us the deregulation that has a lot to do with the economic collapse,' said Robert Kuttner, the co-founder of the liberal-leaning American Prospect magazine.

The growing fury over the bailout of Citigroup largely focuses on Rubin's role. In a damning post-mortem of Citigroup's rush to risk, the New York Times labelled Rubin 'an architect of the bank's strategy' and described him as having 'pushed to bulk up the bank's high-growth fixed-income trading'.

Rubin, the paper said, led the bank into a risky gamble on investments, including securities backed by sub-prime mortgages. With a base Citigroup salary of $115m, excluding stock options and bonuses, Rubin's defence that he had no 'operating' responsibilities at the bank is not widely accepted. 'He still has a fiduciary responsibility as a board member,' said William Smith, a New York money manager. 'He has overseen the entire meltdown, yet been compensated as an operating employee, while bragging about having no operating responsibility.'

...

LMAO! Rubin goes on to justify his pay by saying he could have gone elsewhere and made more. The one corporate party in Washington cuts across political party lines and it does not serve the people.

Bush's advice to India...

Step 1 - identify the source of the attack. Which group is responsible and where are they located?
Step 2 - pick a nation that had nothing to do with the attacks. Start scaring the voting public with talk of this nation being a threat. Say "mushroom cloud" often.
Step 3 - ruin the careers of any intelligence agent, ambassador or politician that disagrees with this policy.
Step 4 - attack the nation that had nothing to do with the attacks on India. Get bogged down in that nation for years.
Step 5 - when the original reasons for invading this nation that had nothing to do with the attacks on india are proven false, come up with a list of secondary reasons and then fall back on 'it's all part of the plan".

Based on Bush's advice and example, India should be bogged down in Uzbekistan 5 years from now with over 4000 dead soldiers and millions of dollars wasted. Some military contractors and weapons manufacturers in India and the US will be sitting pretty though.

Just a brief update.

FACTBOX-Security developments in Afghanistan, Nov 30
30 Nov 2008 12:44:50 GMT
Source: Reuters
Nov 30 (Reuters) - Following are security developments in Afghanistan at 1215 GMT on Sunday:

*denotes new or updated items

*KABUL - A suicide bomber hit a German embassy vehicle on a road leading to the parliament building on Sunday in Kabul, police said, adding two local civilians were killed and three wounded in the attack. The only occupant of the vehicle, its driver, escaped unhurt, police said.

*KUNAR - Afghan troops killed eight Taliban insurgents in a clash after the latter ambushed a convoy of the soldiers in the eastern province of Kunar, army officers said, adding the troops suffered no casualties.

PAKTIA/KABUL - Afghan and U.S.-led troops killed 17 militants and detained ten suspected insurgents in two separate raids in southeastern Paktia and Kabul provinces on Saturday, the U.S. military said. It did not say whether there were casualties among civilians or troops during the operations.

ZABUL - Taliban insurgents released on Sunday two Afghan journalists kidnapped from the main highway in southern Zabul province last week, officials said. No reason was given for the abduction or freedom of the pair, who work for foreign media.

Just a brief update.

FACTBOX-Security developments in Afghanistan, Nov 30
30 Nov 2008 12:44:50 GMT
Source: Reuters
Nov 30 (Reuters) - Following are security developments in Afghanistan at 1215 GMT on Sunday:

*denotes new or updated items

*KABUL - A suicide bomber hit a German embassy vehicle on a road leading to the parliament building on Sunday in Kabul, police said, adding two local civilians were killed and three wounded in the attack. The only occupant of the vehicle, its driver, escaped unhurt, police said.

*KUNAR - Afghan troops killed eight Taliban insurgents in a clash after the latter ambushed a convoy of the soldiers in the eastern province of Kunar, army officers said, adding the troops suffered no casualties.

PAKTIA/KABUL - Afghan and U.S.-led troops killed 17 militants and detained ten suspected insurgents in two separate raids in southeastern Paktia and Kabul provinces on Saturday, the U.S. military said. It did not say whether there were casualties among civilians or troops during the operations.

ZABUL - Taliban insurgents released on Sunday two Afghan journalists kidnapped from the main highway in southern Zabul province last week, officials said. No reason was given for the abduction or freedom of the pair, who work for foreign media.

Just a brief update.

FACTBOX-Security developments in Afghanistan, Nov 30
30 Nov 2008 12:44:50 GMT
Source: Reuters
Nov 30 (Reuters) - Following are security developments in Afghanistan at 1215 GMT on Sunday:

*denotes new or updated items

*KABUL - A suicide bomber hit a German embassy vehicle on a road leading to the parliament building on Sunday in Kabul, police said, adding two local civilians were killed and three wounded in the attack. The only occupant of the vehicle, its driver, escaped unhurt, police said.

*KUNAR - Afghan troops killed eight Taliban insurgents in a clash after the latter ambushed a convoy of the soldiers in the eastern province of Kunar, army officers said, adding the troops suffered no casualties.

PAKTIA/KABUL - Afghan and U.S.-led troops killed 17 militants and detained ten suspected insurgents in two separate raids in southeastern Paktia and Kabul provinces on Saturday, the U.S. military said. It did not say whether there were casualties among civilians or troops during the operations.

ZABUL - Taliban insurgents released on Sunday two Afghan journalists kidnapped from the main highway in southern Zabul province last week, officials said. No reason was given for the abduction or freedom of the pair, who work for foreign media.

Interesting subject

Future Prisoners of war: International Law or criminal courts?
By Walid Phares

Upon the ongoing debate about the release of Guantanamo detainess or their processing through US criminal courts, a heavy fact is still unaddressed: future prisoners of war. If indeed the United States is and will continue to be at War with "an enemy" -and the forthcoming Administration has announced an escalation in the War in Afghanistan- one can only project that US forces may (rather will) take future prisoners. This inevitability is expected to put pressure on the ongoing debate. For seizing the enemy's combatants under the law of war and releasing them through criminal law is a hybrid equation about to crumble. In the following piece I am making the case to the new Administration to make a choice: cancel the war or apply its laws..

Last Thursday’s order by a federal judge to release five Algerian detainees from Guantanamo Bay prison reopens the complex debate about the principle of holding prisoners of war during wartime. But, and this may be even more important, it also reopens the debate inside the three branches of government in the United States over whether or not our nation is actually at war.

The case at hand will certainly be discussed by legal specialists on both sides of the debate. Here is the chain of legal events that will be scrutinized: The first “civilian court” ruling -- for terrorism suspects who have challenged their detention -- found that the five men “could not be held indefinitely as enemy combatants.” Thus, in this instance U.S. District Judge Richard J. Leon has essentially informed the government that failing an official and legally declared war, one cannot detain individuals who have not been proven guilty of crimes or of material participation in terrorism.

Last summer the Supreme Court granted the Guantanamo detainees (see the Boumediene case) “the right to challenge their imprisonment.” The real statement there was that since there is no legal basis for the War on Terror, the so-called “prisoners of war” are in fact detained under the principles of criminal law not the international law of war.

So when U.S. forces arrest individuals suspected of being enemy combatants the government must prove that each individual was actually waging war. But since civilian courts do not recognize the “existence” of such war, the government must prove that each person detained was physically involved in an illegal act leading to violence against the United States or its allied interests.

Judge Leon ruled that the U.S. government “failed to prove that five of the six Algerians held at Guantanamo Bay since January 20, 2002, were enemy combatants headed to Afghanistan to fight against the United States.” According to media sources, “a senior Department of Defense official said the government’s case was hampered because the CIA would not hand over the classified information it had obtained in interrogating the 6 suspects.” If the CIA had released the evidence, would the court have ruled otherwise?

What these legal developments tell us is that the United States’ counterterrorism campaign is squeezed between two worlds: On the one hand, our nation’s leaders have been acting as if we are in a state of war with an enemy; and on another hand the Judicial system is telling us that it is basing its rulings solely on criminal law.

Meanwhile the Jihadists are winning. They meet U.S. forces on the battlefield and ask to be treated under the Geneva Conventions — which they do not recognize to begin with. If they are apprehended and brought into custody, they expect to swim through the legal system. In conventional wars, when a unit from the enemy forces is captured, the courts do not rule on each fighter’s particular posture at the time of capture. When you listen to the judges’ rulings on the detainees’ individual cases, they appear to be on solid ground, upholding the Constitution. But when you contrast their rulings with the government’s view then the process seems tragicomic.

A state of war with an enemy has its own logic and its own procedures. Enemies are kept under the Geneva Conventions’ protection until the conflict ends. War criminals are tried under international law. Fighters or enemy combatants cannot be tried in civilian courts as criminals. But if there is no state of war, then there shouldn’t be detention centers to begin with. Apprehended criminals are processed under the laws of the land and courts are sovereign in dealing with the fate of each and every suspect under arrest. In short we can’t have two legal tracks at once. — Either the U.S. is at war with a global enemy or is it not.

The Bush administration has struggled with the legal consequences of its War on Terror. The Obama administration will inherit the issue and must make a decision. It can continue with the hybrid system we have now, perhaps pushing it further towards a criminal procedure while U.S. forces wage a full-fledged war in Afghanistan -- if not elsewhere. If America won’t withdraw from the region as requested by Al Qaeda and Iran -- she will continue to find herself in a confrontation with her enemies some of whom may be captured. What lies ahead for the United States will be more complicated than even our current situation.

My advice to the forthcoming administration is to begin at the top, where the current administration has stopped: Identify the enemy and take a stand on the global conflict.

*************

Dr. Walid Phares is the Director of the Future Terrorism Project at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies and the author of The Confrontation: Winning the War against Future Jihad.

You are having a spam meltdown

Maybe you can get banned again. Today was one of your poorest performances yet.

He's just trying as hard as he knows how

...to avoid answering a simple question.

He got Bitch-Slapped over on another thread, so he's come here to spam-bomb.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

You the got bitch slapped

bitch. By the way, the top 25% pay 89% of taxes, but own less than 89% of the wealth. www.irs.gov

Care to narrow it down a bit?

The IRS web site is fairly large, and contains a great deal of information. What specific page did you get your numbers from?

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

By nonexistent manDecember 1, 2008 - 2:18pm

LOL

It reminds me of his argument "check the congressional record." Of course we all remember the time the congressional record proved him wrong on the CRA but he kept yapping away...

I don't expect an answer from him.

I had the temerity to actually go visit the site he linked to and pull the data that he was most likely to use. And as usual for a g0p sheeple-troll, the data doesn't agree with his position. It only takes about five minutes running OpenOffice Calc and a few simple formulae plugged into the appropriate cells to determine that he's WAY off the mark.

Those pesky, pesky FACTS...

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

By nonexistent manNovember 30, 2008 - 5:53pm

I think that is why hatey sticks around. He's been bitch slapped so many times here, he hopes he can get even one day. hatey is quite the dummy.

Too bad for him that he didn't accept his banning and just go away.

You prove the old axion

Ignorance is bliss, and you, my useful idiot, live in such ignorant bliss, that you make Dumbo look like Einstein.

AXION?!

Dipshit. An axiom (with an M) is an unproven statement which is assumed to be true, such as "Hatey is a spamming little coward and bully." I assume that is true, based solely on your behavior.

On the other hand, the word you use, Axion® with an N, is a brand of detergent produced by the Colgate-Palmolive corporation and marketed primarily to the Latino community.

I see you survived Thanksgiving. What did you do to pretend not to be a turkey?

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

Perhaps mumufu in their blissful ignorance....

meant was "prove that old Axion®" isn't a strong enough detergent to take the skid marks out of momo's shorts.

Still home for the holidays...this was an automated, pre-recorded bi*tchslap.

Um, perhaps momofuku was

Um, perhaps momofuku was really talking about quantum physics with the axion bit. Clearly, his ability to post someone else's thoughts would indicate his mastery of science as well.

See, he really *is* Einstein! The new Theory of Spelling Relativity. If a word is misspelled with letter(s) relatively close in the alphabet, then it's correct.

Saturday: 44 Iraqis, 3 Contractors Killed; 32 Iraqis, 14 Contrac

Saturday: 44 Iraqis, 3 Contractors Killed; 32 Iraqis, 14 Contractors Wounded

A rocket attack in Baghdad killed three UN contractors and wounded 14 others near the international Green Zone. None of the victims were Iraqis. At least 44 Iraqis were also killed and 32 more Iraqis were wounded in separate attacks. No Coalition deaths were reported. Meanwhile, the UN has delayed its report on disputed Kurdish areas in Iraq until after January elections in order to avoid stoking the conflict.

A series of mass graves gave up 33 bodies in the Albu Toma area. The Iraqi army expects to find more graves in the area, which some have described as being an "al-Qaeda courthouse." Most of them date to about a year ago, when sectarian violence was at its highest. A woman and a child were among the dead.

In Baghdad, an Iranian-made rocket landed near the Green Zone, killing three foreigner contractors and wounding 14 others, who all worked for the United Nations. Their nationalities were not released. In a separate incident, U.S. forces captured a key member of the Hezbollah Brigade during a raid yesterday in Karrada; two associates were killed and three others were arrested. Today in Karrada, a bomb killed a civilian and wounded three others. Elsewhere in Ghazaliya, four policemen were wounded in a roadside bombing. An adhesive bomb wounded three civilians in Atifiya. Also, an unidentified body was found dumped in the Amin neighborhood.

In Mosul, gunmen staged a two-part attack: Two brothers were killed during an attack on their jewelry shop. The gunmen left a bomb, which exploded when rescuers arrived at the shop. One police officer was killed and 18 other people were wounded in the bombing.

A bomb blast wounded four policemen in Saidiya.

U.S. forces killed four suspects and arrested seven others in Tuz Khormato.

Iraqi security forces arrested sixteen bodyguards working for the mayor of Muqdadiyah. No reasons for the arrests were given.

Two provincial council members from Wassit were released after two years in U.S. detention. There was no word as to whether the pair was found innocent or where released for other reasons.

Alaska Notebook: Palin's Georgia pal

Alaska Notebook: Palin's Georgia pal
Posted: November 28, 2008 - 4:38 pm
by Matt Zencey

Gov. Sarah Palin is putting her conservative Republican fame to work in Georgia, stumping for Republican U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss, who is in a tough runoff for re-election.

I wonder if she knows the true measure of the man she is eagerly helping.

Chambliss was elected to the Senate in 2002 by running one of the most reprehensible campaigns of modern times. He was up against incumbent Democrat Sen. Max Cleland, a Vietnam War veteran who lost both legs and his right arm to a grenade during that conflict.

Chambliss avoided serving in Vietnam. He got four student draft deferments, and when his number finally came up, he was medically disqualified with knee troubles.

In the best Karl Rove fashion, Chambliss the draft-evader attacked Cleland the war hero for being soft on terrorism. Distorting Cleland’s votes about workplace rules for the new Homeland Security Department employees, Chambliss portrayed him as a tool of terrorists like Osama bin Laden.

Here’s how the Almanac of American Politics (2006) described it:
“Chambliss ran an ad, much attacked in the press, showing pictures of Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and Max Cleland, and saying that Cleland 'voted against the President’s vital homeland security efforts 11 times.’” (Those “vital homeland security efforts” Cleland opposed were intended to strip homeland security employees of union rights and other workplace protections.)

The man who couldn’t bring himself to serve in the military said a man who left three limbs behind in war was a weakling who would turn the country over to terrorists.

Chambliss was a congressman during the 9-11 attacks. Congressional Quarterly’s “Politics in America 2006” noted that Congressman Chambliss “quipped that one route to security would be for local sheriffs to 'arrest every Muslim that comes across the state line.’”

Bush is on the phone with india right now

"I'm telling you to forget the actual culprits. Pick a nation that doesn't pose any threat and invade them instead. Trust me it will be profitable for you and me. Just keep talking about his event, the nation you want to attack and throw in some talk of mushroom clouds. It's a slam dunk!"

Stop Doc Bloc - New Facebook group

Good post - I cited it in my new Facebook group - Stop Doc Blocs at MSNBC and added a reference to it in my post about this subject from last week, MSNBC Runs Canned Doc Bloc as Mumbai Burns ...

Who knows, maybe MSNBC will see the light...

Cruel timing catchs newspeople home for the holidays

What we're complaining mostly about is the cheap quality of auto-programming choices.

If it had been a dead news night, they were competing against football and family conversation. It was a wash for them at any outcome. They have given those little wins to their competitors for some time now. Not a fresh development.

But you would think a modern network could coordinate their local Middle East affiliates to take over feeds (dynamics of satellite usage costs, etc.) that a local Indian NBC desk would have bent over to broadcast to a U.S. audience. Some streaming feeds would have sufficed.

Explosions, fire, blood, mayhem, carnage -- TERRORISM!

Yes. More! More! More! I can never get me enough blood and carnage!

I'm sorry that Michael, er Lionel, wanted so much blood and carnage on Thanksgiving that never-ending loops of it on almost all the major media outlets just wasn't enough.
Nope.
He needed to see more on MSNBC too.

Seriously, WTF is wrong with this guy? Outside of his tendency to completely miss the point rather often in his attempts to always be contrarian, and talking down to others as if they are somehow less intelligent because they don't use unnecessary adjectives to prolong a sentence, of course.

And I bet Michael, er Lionel, probably never even gave thought to the idea that, while he needed blood! blood! yes, more blood please!, some viewers might prefer different programming. And while other "news" outlets were running non-stop "It Bleeds So It Leads" coverage, perhaps MSNBC noticed an opportunity to provide that different programming. And maybe MSNBC figured it could walk and chew gum at the same time by providing updates on the situation in Mumbai throughout the course of that programming.

What a novel idea.

And one that would seem to have paid off for them in the ratings, as MSNBC topped all other news networks (yes Michael, er Lionel, even your hands-down winner CNN!) in the coveted 25-54 demo in just about each and every evening hour.

Imagine that.

Michael, er Lionel, says he wants MSNBC to succeed so he offers his advice.

I say if MSNBC wants to succeed, they'll ignore Michael's, er Lionel's, advice...
____________________
"It's all been satirized for your protection." --Maher

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