Where is the Glenn Greenwald segment? That's what I came here for.

Okay, remind me again why we don't like Rob/Bob Ruben? Treasury secretary under B Clinton, right? I thought Clinton did the economy right & we are just trying to get back to where we once belonged (as it were).

But my main point is that apparently Nobody paid attention to what an extremely moderate corporate-friendly democrat Obama is. They all just piled on to the change-wagon & now are surprised that he doesn't have the policies of Kucinich. Don't get me wrong. Obama is change & better all around than McBush, but he's not about to single-handedly usher in a utopian era of progressive economics. Maybe if he gets enough down-ticket progressive dems to push him that direction, but not on his own.

what the REAL problem is w/Obama's stance on the FISA bill and his election chances. What is a recurring Right-Wing meme on Democrats, that keeps on sticking even as Bush looks more and more like the traitor and coward we all know he is? It's that "Dems are opportunistic and have no backbone, and will bend in ANY direction if they can see a momentary advantage in it" - which is exactly how Hoyer, Pelosi and the House Dems who voted for the FISA Capitulation look right now. It doesn't make them look principled or aware of anything other than (in the immortal words of William J. Lepetamine) "holdin' onto our phoney-baloney jobs!" - and sadly, Obama's "I'm opposed to the Telecom Immunity provision of this bill and will fight against it - but will vote for it anyway" looks like more of the same from the presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee.

The Repub's Master Strategy that gave them almost permanent control of Congress and the White House was to stand on NeoCon Christian Conservative "principle" over and over, come what may - win or lose, they KEPT voting against abortion and same-sex rights and checks on televangelists, and KEPT gaining adherents throughout the Seventies and Eighties. Even people who didn't necessarily agree w/the Repubs came to see them as "standing for something higher than themselves", while the Democrats tore themselves to shreds over what was perceived as niggling issues of political correctitude (just like the Jedi Knights in STAR WARS 1-3 did). That these issues were, in fact, fumbling attempts to ensure equitable treatment for ALL Americans got lost in the round-robin recriminations of WHO Has Historically Had it Worse, when the truth is everybody who's not a Rich White Guy have all had it really really bad at the Rich White Guys' hands!

I had hopes that Barack Obama would put a unilateral halt to this by his politics of principled pragmatism - of realizing that the world is a seriously flawed place, but it's up to ALL of us whether we whine about it...or do our damnedest to change that. Unfortunately, his position on this FISA bill makes him appear neither pragmatic nor principled, but desperate and pandering in the way Hillary Clinton's votes for the Iraq and (forthcoming) Iran War, and for The PATRIOT Act (twice!) made her look when she ran for President.

I believe, firmly, that Obama needs to vote against the FISA bill, because even if he loses the vote, even if most Americans are so terrified of the Ay-rab Boogeyman that they will cheerfully flush their civil liberties down the toilet and Question the Patriotism of anyone who reminds them that's exactly what they're doing, what they will remember come Election Day is "That Barack Obama, he's - got principles, don't he? Of course he's wrong - but still...he's got principles, unlike McCain who keeps flip-flopping Just Like Some Dem With No Backbone."