But in the late Eighteenth Century, when the Second Amendment was written and passed, "arms" were smooth-bore single-shot muzzle loaders with minimal effective range and a maximum fire rate of about 3 rounds/minute.  Maybe we need to go back to that standard.

Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward.--Kurt Vonnegut

this is the same guy that tried to convince Randi Rhodes about arming teachers just about an hour ago.

Hey Rachel Kent all. We always said, nothing I own is worth me killing another person. Canadians are like that in Bowling for Columbine. Kung Fu, as long as they just want stuff, and leave their hands off me and my family, they can steal my stuff. But if someone breaks into your house they better leave quick too, cause thats when, if you get your hands on them..... you'll snap em in many ways.

Gun law, in Florida, shoot first if threatened. You have to be at a certain distance, to use a gun, without it being able to be taken away, which to me says anyone shot under this law could have only bee shot out of a sort of premeditation.

Think in Kung Fu terms. Someone feels threatened by you, so they, pull out a gun. Well, if they do that, you beat the shit out of them, unless, they are far away when they pull out a gun. Which makes me wonder, how much of a threat you could be, so far away, to be out of reach of physical contact.

"He chased me for blocks and blocks". Maybe if Jason Vorhees just keeps coming and coming no matter how many bricks you hit him with, its OK to"go get a gun" to deal with the person threatning you. But I think I see a flaw in this thinking.

If Im or you're here, and he's over there, and he's a killer.... Unless me and you are yourself lurking around the wilderness, and somehow, we're somewhere in America and no ones around(it's getting crowded here you know) and some guy jumps out, unless you or I has a gun, if that guy goes, "you're threatning me", and pulls out a gun and he's not close enough that either you or I can just snatch it away out of his dumbass boogeny redneck hillbilly chicken shit hands and beat the the shit out of him, then there is no physical way possible, we could have been a threat to him, unless, he was a Lilputin and we we're inadvertantly going to step on him or her in the next jolly tromp.

That's of coarse in the normal world, senario. Thats...Unless, you make a law which legalizes concealed weapons and all of a suddon introduces a bunch of guns that can be pulled out, to be threatened by by people claiming to be threatened, threatning people,causing them to pull out guns  in self defense for the threatning they feel, in a domino effect of violent gun incidents.

And that's how stupid that law is, as an example of typical overcompensating and mis-handling of the 2nd Amendment gun issue.

See how concealed weapons work out when situations like this arise:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Courtroom_Shooting

Read the paragraph titled <b>First Attempt To Subdue</b>

I love Spy VS Spy.

I agree. I say the same thing on not all drugs, but pot, "Just because some idiot jumps off a building once back in 1995 while on acid, doesnt mean the rest of us aren't responsible enough to spark up a bong hit. Right to bare bonghits. Call it neccessity or necessary luxery to deal with the stress of a world with a right to bare arms where Budwiser sponsers the Superbowl.

Why couldn't that one dude have said "You know, if you legalized every form of consuming marijuana in this country, the crime rate would go down. I don't know if according to this group or that groups bible its what they call, moral. But I guarantee the crime rate would go down. There'd be less deaths due to gun violence, or crimes of passion,"?

PS-Find out if this guy snapped cause he had faith based abstinence training and didn't know he could just jerk off, or in 10 years he wouldn't even know this girls name. Like, dude, come on. If it was over a girl. They'll say he was into goth or something, assholes. But yeah, maybe he was a victem of absitence training would turned it back on the society that mis understood him. Or maybe hes just some dude who went bonkers, but we should know cause conservatives always look for that "he listened to Jusad Priest! Thats why he shot everyone and himself" angle. I blame peer pressure to read the bible, or abstinence training so when his girlfriend left, after losing access to her oral and anal exception clauses that these kids seem to find themselves, he went bonkers. Something like that.

If you want the nation to go into a STATE OF EMERGENCY when a nutcase goes berserk, or a School of the Americas mercenary that ran out of his MKULTRA meds, or a GI that is getting PAY BACK for the Dear John letter he got OVER THERE, perhaps we should save time and DECLARE MARSHAL LAW right NOW!!!

Sirhan sirhan ...possible CIA mind manipulation

Korean prisoners of war in china ...manchurian candidate

MKUltra.... LSD....the Olson suicide....

what's next?

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread276622/pg1

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

SUBJECT: Project MKULTRA, Subproject 2

1. Subproject 2 is being set up to provide a secure and efficient means to exploit [deletion] in regard to the MKULTRA program.

2. [deletion] is a practicing psychiatrist in [deletion] and a faculty member of the [deletion] His past positions have included Chief Neuropsychiatrist at [deletion] Chief of the Psychiatric Section at [deletion] and OSS experience during World War II. He has been of value in the general MKULTRA field as an overall advisor and consultant, he has been of value in containing individuals in the [deletion] area and in setting up projects there, and he has done work himself which has contributed to the MKULTRA field. His professional activities and known connections with the ...

www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/e1950/mkultra/AppendixC.htm#170

Under the provisions of the National Security Act of 1947, the CIA was established. [2] One of the main areas investigated by the CIA was mind control. The behavior control program was motivated by Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean use of mind control techniques. The CIA originated its first program in 1950 under the name BLUEBIRD. MKULTRA officially began in 1953. It was closed in 1964. In 1973, tipped off about forthcoming investigations, CIA Director Richard Helms ordered the destruction of any MKULTRA records. MC 3, 10, 17

The Senate Intelligence Committee did find some records during its investigation in 1976. Senator Frank Church, who led the congressional investigations of the CIA’s unlawful actions, said that the agency was “a rogue elephant" operating above the law as it plotted assassinations, illegally spied on thousands of Americans, and even drugged our own citizens in its effort to develop new weapons for its covert arsenal. [3] In 1977, through a Freedom of Information Act request, 16,000 pages of mind control documents were found, held as part of the Agency’s financial history. That is how much of this information has been pieced together. MC 5, 18, NB xvi, 38

www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol

the Supreme Court held that institutions and individuals who performed research for the MKULTRA project are intelligence sources and their identities may be withheld) (Exemption 3 [50 U.S.C. § 403-3(c)(7)]: confirming or denying the existence of a covert relationship between the CIA and UCLA would reveal intelligence sources and methods and threaten national security; protects names of MKULTRA researchers and the institutions for which they worked within records reflecting overt CIA/UCLA contacts; [50 U.S.C. § 403g]: protects the names and signatures of CIA employees, CIA organizational information and budgetary details, and information that would identify the precise nature of CIA's overt relationship with UCLA; [50 U.S.C. § 431(a)]: CIA must search its operational files concerning MKULTRA, making all releasable information available to plaintiff, because MKULTRA has been the subject of numerous government investigations)

www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2002foiapost24.htm

The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an 'extensive testing and experimentation' program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens 'at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign.' Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to 'unwitting subjects in social situations.' At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKULTRA

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
- Zach Copley

NO POLITICS TODAY?

If the DEMS cant fight FIRE with FIRE, how do you expect to put out an OIL FIRE?

When the FACT that terrorism is NOT restricted to the IRA, CHECHNYANS, PLO JIHADI, MEXICAN MAFIA, BROWN SKINNED fir'n'ers, but includes McVey KKK, DC ANTHRAXER, BORN AGAIN RIGHT TO LIFE OBGYN ASSISSINS, Columbine Goths, UNI-BOMBER, NORIEGA, PINNOCHET, POSADA, CAPTAIN CRUNCH, AIPAC MOLES, CHINESE DoD SPIES, UBL CIA SAUDI ASSET, 9/11 NORAD-NEADS STAND DOWN, VIOXX, AZT, Thimerosal, Aspartame, et. al., when it's driven home via 30 DEAD at Virgina Tech in the face of IRAQ-VIETNAM v2.05 with Cambodian Rouge to the n'th Power as Al Qaida v2.0 being created and FERTILIZED by NEOCON/Carlyle Group profiteering (who's trading the Afghan POPPY SEED CROP and cleaning up on EXXON price GOUGING?), that is being perpetuated from Rumsfeld's PERMANENT office in the Pentagon and Vader in the West Wing, IS IN YOUR FACE and honor guards are burying GI's in Arlington EVERYDAY, IT'S TIME TO TALK POLITICS DESPITE A FEW DB's dwarfed by 100+ per dium adjacent to the Vatican sized US EMBASSY in the middle of MESS-O-POTAMIA where BREMMER WALLS are sprouting around cesspools since the sewage system is BROKE!!!

Who are you afraid of offending? The FOXnoise constituency?

LEAD FOLLOW OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!!!

www.hightowerlowdown.org/node/833

BTW: Did the bushies shed a tear over NOLA? Has Lieberman permanently buried the FEMA KATRINA response and GRAFT investigation? Where the hell is Waxman?

As far as GUN CONTROL;

If CLUSTER BOMBS, LAND MINES, WHITE PHOSPHORUS NAPALM legislation already on the books are NOT enforced, while small arms assault weapon shipments, by the 10's of thousands, continue to DARFUR, etc., is PERFECTLY LEGAL what's the point of furthering the Giuliani POLICE STATE civilian surveillance and disarming the US public agenda all about, FEAR?

Security at the expense of liberty, NO KNOCK WARRANTS, FBI self issued National Security Letters, thousands of SIGNING STATEMENTS, and now guarantee that only BLACK/GREY MARKET GUNS are available to CRIMINALS, PERFECT?

How's that WAR on DRUGS working out for you?

The GWoT is a SMASHING SUCCESS TOO, RIGHT?

BRILLIANT!!!!!!!

Try EDUCATION instead. The fairness doctrine could never have been revoked if the PEOPLE WERE INFORMED about why it was instituted in the first place. Bush 41 would NEVER have been president his whereabouts on the day JFK was assassinated and all the Warren Commission documents had been released. Clinton would NEVER have signed NAFTA or passed FCC ownership consolidation if the public understood what Teddy Trustbuster THE BUCK STOPS HERE was all about. Finally the PEOPLE would NOT have stood silently by as the SCOTUS ruled AGAINST counting all the VOTES in Florida in 2000. WE WOULD NOT have had to raise the DEBT CEILING three times, or have scarred the minds and bodies of over 1,000,000,000 GI's who have cycled through IRAQ on an ILLEGAL WAR that wouldn't have happened if the PEOPLE were aware of Gobles-Goering BIG LIE Reichstag Fire, remembered the GULF OF TONKIN, The sinking of the MAINE, and OPERATION NORTHWOODS!!!

MORE FASCIST AUTHORITARIAN LAWS are NOT the solution, EDUCATION IS!!!!!!!!!!!!

“War is a Racket" came from a prominent Marine from the past, Smedley Butler. He was a two-time Congressional Medal of Honor winner known for his integrity. I’ll return to the quote, and his explanation of exactly what he meant by it, because he could as easily have been talking about the Iraq war. But in case you didn’t know, Butler is also famous for stopping a Fascist takeover of the White House!

In 1934, Butler went to his friends in the press and Congress with a remarkable tale. He claimed that bond trader Gerald MacGuire approached him in the summer of 1933, as a representative of a group of wealthy businessmen, and asked him to speak publicly on behalf of the gold standard so that soldiers would not be paid in “rubber money or paper money." When Butler refused, MacGuire offered him a cash bribe, which Butler also refused. MacGuire then told him what they really wanted was for him to lead a 500,000 man army to DC to protect President Franklin Delano Roosevelt from other coup plotters, and to install a “Secretary of General Welfare" to “take all the worries and details off his [FDR’s] shoulders."

Butler responded, “…my one hobby is, maintaining a democracy. If you get these 500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get 500,000 more and lick the hell out of you, and we will have a real war right at home."

http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2005/02/war-is-racket-for-rich.h...

Smedley Butler on Interventionism

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm

“This American system of ours, call it Americanism, call it capitalism, call it what you will, gives each and every one of us a great opportunity if we only seize it with both hands and make the most of it"
- Al Capone

"A date that will live in infamy"
- President Roosevelt’s words at Pearl Harbor

When the SHOCK & AWE bombing of Iraq started, Schlesinger took the strongest position of anyone I’ve seen, of condemnation of it. First stated so strong that it wasn’t, almost never--didn't appear in the press and I haven't heard a word about it since. As the line began he said this is a date, which will live in infamy. And he re-called President Roosevelt’s words at Pearl Harbor, a date that will live in infamy because the United States is following the path of the Japanese fascists.

This is one of the worst catastrophes in military history and also in political history. The most recent studies of the Red Cross show that Iraq has suffered the worst decline in child mortality, infant mortality, an increase in infant mortality known. But it’s since 1990. That is, it's a combination of the affect of the murderers' and brutal sanctions regime, which we don’t talk much about, which devastated society through the 1990's and strengthened Saddam Hussein, compelled the population to rely on him for survival, which probably saved him from the fate of a whole long series of other tyrants who were overthrown by their own people supported by the U.S.

And then came the war on top of it which has simply increased the horrors. The decline is unprecedented. The increase in infant mortality is unprecedented; it's now below the level of, worse than some of the countries in sub-Saharan Africa. It's one index of what's happened. The most probably measure of deaths in a study sponsored by M.I.T. incidentally carried out by leading specialists in Iraq and here last October was about 650,000 killed, soon to be pushing a million. There are several million people fled including the large part of the professional classes, people who could in principal help rebuild the country. And without going on, it's a hideous catastrophe and getting worse.

It’s also worth stressing that aggressors do not have any rights. This is a clear-cut case of aggression and violation of the U.N. Charter, a supreme international crime and in the words of the Nuremburg Tribunal, aggressors simply have no rights to make any decisions. They have responsibilities. The responsibilities are, first of all to pay enormous reparations and that includes for the sanctions-- the effect of the sanctions, in fact it ought to include the support for Saddam Hussein in the 1980's, which was torture for Iraqis and worse for Iranians.

The paid reparations hold those responsible, accountable and attend to the will of the victims. It doesn't necessarily mean follow blindly, but certainly attend to it. And the will of the victims is known, the regular U.S.-run polls in Iraq, and the government polling institutions, it's just an overwhelming support for either immediate or quick withdrawal of U.S. Troops, about 80 percent think that the presence of U.S. Troops increases the level of violence. Over 60% think that troops are legitimate targets. This isn’t for all of Iraq, if you take the figures of Arab Iraq where the troops are actually deployed the figures are higher. The figures keep going up. They're unmentioned, virtually unreported, scarcely alluded to in the Baker-Hamilton critical report. That’ll be our primary concern, along with the concerns of the Americans.

Here see this, YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING!!!
democracynow.org/ ... 07/04/16

"There is nothing new in the world except the history you do not know."
-- Harry Truman

.

.

Don't worry too much about the Nazi-Klan being against the war in Iraq. I guarantee you it's sheer opportunism.

When they're recruiting, they lick their fingers and stick 'em up in the wind. When they've decided which way they think the wind is blowing on a major issue, they hop on and ride for recruiting/publicity purposes.

The white supremacists in NC and SC had always a "kill list" -- groups they wanted to wipe out. In the late '60s, they began to figure out that advocating killing Catholics wasn't so popular any more. So they played down that part of their platform - stopped talking about it at all. Aroudn the same time, they discovered gays were unpopular, and suddenly their literature and "misson statements" were filled with anti-gay diatribes.

Sheer opportunism, for recruiting. It will stay in their rhetoric as long as they think it draws in members. Then, you won't hear about it any more.

Society's do.

Let's face it, while the US may be the most heavily-armed culture in history, Canada is not far behind--yet they don't regularly slaughter each other in huge numbers as do we south of their long and nervous border.

Why not?  IMHO, there is a particular rank ugliness in being a citizen of the US, based largely, as one might expect, on its unique history.  Forget the tales of "noble seekers of freedom", as the nation's founders are usually characterized:  with a few noteworthy exceptions, most were instead religious fanatics, vicious drunks, murderers, pickpockets, horse-thieves, hookers and other misfits that the more civilized nations couldn't wait to get rid of.  The early Americans realized this, I think; being human, they resented it, and thus began to take out their frustrations on those around them whom, being weaker, were easy targets:  women, children, natives, indentured servants and slaves.

If you're near the bottom, you strike downwards. 

And we, their descendants--at least those of us of a primarily European background--have inherited that culture-wide equivalent of "small man's syndrome", born of the notion that no matter what we do, others are laughing at us because we're just not good enough.  It shows in the reaction to September 11, wherein Bush--a perfect example of an American breast-beater--blustered against a nation that not only had nothing to do with the incident, but by all measurements would be unable to put up much of a fight.

We strike out, we win, we feel better.

Would this bozo at VT have been able to kill 32 people if they'd have been armed themselves?  Better to ask, if Americans insist on being Americans, would ubiquitous gun-toting condemn us to Old West-style carnage, where the mildest slight to our personal self-esteem--as refered to in the much-vaunted concept of a "culture of honor"--guarantee a blaze of six-guns and even more thousands dead for no defensible reason?

Honestly, I don't know.  But I think that unless we get a handle on our tendancy towards hair-trigger violence, then all the gun control laws we have and might someday pass are doomed to failure...particularly since there are so many firearms in existence as it is, thanks to a centuries-long liberal interpretation of the Second Amendment, that it would take decades--and billions of dollars, and likely thousands upon thousands of lives--to sieze and destroy them all.

Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward.--Kurt Vonnegut

If I were president the only people who would legally posses full auto or sub auto weapons would be the police and the military.

MP-5's, UZI's, M-16's, AR-15's, AK-47's and any other machine gun serve only 1 purpose to kill people.

We need stronger gun control laws in this country! We need something similiar to Massachusetts Bartley-Fox gun laws or New York's Sullivan act.

It's time we made any school a safe haven for our children.

It's time we held the NRA accountable for allowing the loopholes in the gun controls laws signed into law by President Bill Clinton

I would also close the loophole by requiring background checks at gun shows!

I would also make it a class A felony for anyone to be a straw buyer.

For those of you who don't know what that is. It's a person who buys a gun signs BATF form 4473 and declares that the gun was bought for them. Which is perjury. Then the person turns around and sells it to someone who couldn't legally purchase a gun.

Chris Rock has the right idea, he said we don't need gun control we need bullet control I think a bullet should cost $ 5,000 dollars each that way there would be no more innocent bystanders!

Peace and love, y'all.

From Power To Control

It takes a village to have an idiot - Actor212

A member of Tony Blair's cabinet in Britain said today that the phrase "War on Terror" is inappropriate - because it's a problem that can't be won by military means alone.

I totally agree with it.
If the military solution is continuing to worsen the situation in Iraq, maybe it is time to reinforce a humanitarian aid to bring peace to the world.

Instead spending $522 billion on U.S. military budget and wasting our precious lives by sending more troops, we can use the money to save so many lives by providing food, water access and sanitation.

According to The Borgen Project, it only costs $19 billion to eliminate global starvation and nutrition.

How long does is take for Bush and his to realize their "Plan B" is not working? I hope our next political leader will make a commitment to the U.N.’s Millennium Development Goals to stop the global poverty.

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