Commentary: The Underlying Reasons For The Shooting At Ft Hood

Nice to read kellyda's complete and accurate dismantling of the post by Jack "jerry Springer" Dresser,PiledHigher&Deeper., another bleeding heart liberal that goes to bed at night blaming America for all the world's evil. Jack, perhaps you need to take a long walk and count your blessings...perhaps you need to stop and ponder all the good the US and it's soldiers, have done in this world...perhaps you need to up the dosage of Zoloft. Heck, if I sat listening to you more then 30 minutes I would probably need anti-depressants! Just reading your posts makes me want to pour bleach into my eyes! Hope the meds help.

@ 29.
Belva McKann
++++++++++++++
I know you are new to the blog and it can be difficult to acclimate to such a "diverse" place, however even though your points may be well served, your styling is in need of a bit of help as preaching doesn't always work, even when done in the appropriate places.

Rather than castigating those with whom you may not agree (in style or content), perhaps you could offer up something "in place of"?

I think this is especially true when you may be new to a venue as it is used by "regulars" who have become members of a kind of family (as dysfunctional as it may be at times) and these kinds of comments don't always come off as particularity helpful. Why not try contributing to the debate instead of berating? That could help both your point as well as your comradeship.

By the way, it's nice to see a new typeface in these parts!
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#29

Who died and left the squarepants brigade in charge?

#28 Kellyda--THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is how you argue civilly, respectfully, and persuasively. Thank you, kellyda, for being the perfect role model for those who disagree with progressive (liberal) comments here, but who do not know how to communicate their opinions without profanity, namecalling, and all the other accoutrements of ignorance. Your very thoughtful comments, backed up by real experience, are much appreciated.

As a retired Naval officer who works as a neuropsychologist at a large Army medical center and has always been politically liberal, let me correct a few misconceptions: (1) I guarantee that I've heard more stories over the years about horrific combat experiences than MAJ Husan but would never resort to what he did; listening to what others tell you does NOT produce PTSD or cause you to be a mass murderer. Husan never deployed and did not suffer from PTSD. (2) as part of our training and ethics as mental health professions, we are REQUIRED to seek help if we cannot care for our patients or are losing it. It is not someone else's responsibility to do this for us. (3) People voluntarily choose to enter the military, but sign a contract when they do -- you cannot simply opt out when the going gets rough. (4) Husan got the military to pay for his medical school training, internship, residency, and a fellowship ( approximately 8 years total), and he then was legally required to go where he was assigned as part of his contract. 99.99% of the people I see and know in the military (including myself) never got this kind of deal but still follow through on their promises without killing innocent colleagues.

I'm glad to see Hasan's Palestinian family origins with "Made in the USA" violence mentioned. Were his parents ethnically cleansed and their land stolen by Israel in its 1967 invasion of the West Bank shortly before Hasan was born? Had he become aware of US knee-jerk support of Israel's relentless, continuing land theft and brutal occupation of Palestine? Was he aware that anti-Arab racism in the US has been orchestrated by Israeli and AIPAC influence in our media, and that without that racism our genocidal assaults on Iraq and Afghanistan (which offered to extradite bin Laden to a neutral country for trial) would have been impossible? Was his rampage intended to stop at least some American soldiers from going off to kill even more of the Muslim peoples with whom he identified in an illegal and unjustifed war of aggression for undisclosed and misrepresented imperial motives? Was he exposed at Ft. Hood to the flagrant anti-Islamic racism by which our troops are propagandized into dehumanizing those they are being sent to kill? As one returning Iraq vet said in a 2006 Guardian interview, "If you start looking at them as humans, then how are you going to kill them?"

Quote: "And they were bested by the federal government in nearby Waco Texas, in 1993, when federal forces slaughtered some 75 men, women and children in the Branch Davidian compound."

This statement is not only false, it's indicitive of the "apologist" attitude of the author of this article. Check you FACTS jerk off. The Feds did NOT kill those bible thumping, armed to the teeth child molesters in Waco (Branch Davidians) They were as religiously deluded as the Major was, and they killed themselves!

The FACTS of Waco show that David Koresh and his followers poisoned and shot their own children as they set the place ablaze with preset canisters of gasoline placed all over the wooden compound. Don't blame the government for the crazy acts of religious fanatics. This Major had similar fanatic beliefs, as do suicide bombers in the middle east. The belief that you can do anything to anyone and justify it as long as you think you're doing it for God or some kind of glory in heaven.

Blame organized religion, that's the poison panacea that creates this kind of emotionally stunted individual. RELIGION is to blame, not just Islam...ALL ORGANIZED RELIGION. Lose the God nonsense and stop the insanity. And stop lying about what happened in Waco!

The numbers and events cited in this article are truly disturbing. Violence begets violence that's all I can say. I'm weary of the name calling and closed minds. Thanks to those who have made some thoughtful comments here and not been hijacked by the same 'ole same 'ole rants.

I am so glad that I've grown-up and shook all that ideological, progressive liberal BS! It took several years but man o' man is it wonderful.

Mark Ames has written an excellent article, putting this terrible event into much needed context. I deplore the mindset of "Mary" and others like her, who seem to only be able to resort to angry emotion, when clear-minded intellect is needed, desperately, to *prevent* other such attacks from occurring.
Mark Ames writes something that says it all, for me:

"f the government really were concerned about all the suicides and PTSD cases, they could have prevented Mj. Hasan’s murder-suicide mission before it happened. It would have been easy: Hasan had pleaded with his superiors not to be sent to Iraq, where he was scheduled to be deployed, but his requests were denied. RIght-wing bloggers like Michelle Malkin and some mainstream outlets have seized on reports emerging that Hasan supposedly voiced opinions sympathetic to suicide bombers. But if he was an Al Qaeda sleeper-cell suicide bomber himself, it makes no sense why he’d a) argue with fellow soldiers that the wars are wrong and we should withdraw; and b) that he tried to get out of being deployed to Iraq. The 9/11 terrorists did their best to “blend in” and pretend like they were as American as apple pie, because the point is not to draw any attention to yourself if you’re a terrorist planning to suicide bomb a military base. Moreover, the timing of his shooting, the day before he was to be sent off, shows that his desperation had reached the limit. What this suggests is that the massacre could have been avoided if Maj. Hasan’s objections were taken into account."

Listen - the military is under terrible stress and a powder keg waiting to go off, again and again. This war is horrible, and soldiers are terribly damaged from it. The Military, I am sure, knows this.
We can't be surprise, and we are foolish, if angry emotion is our only response. I do deplore that view, as I've stated, and I will not insult my intelligence or sense of ethics by arguing w/people who refuse to grasp the truth that Mr. Ames is telling us.

To Bob Jackson: Your asserting something does not make it the truth. My saying something does not make it the truth. The truth is best revealed by a logical, consistent set of facts. In addition, even truth, if spoken by a civil person, is spoken civilly. You see, if I let myself call you names (idiot, mouth-breather, drooling lout), I wouldn't be proving anything but my own sad deficiencies, so I endeavor to stick to facts and my own personal opinions acknowledged as such, leaving the name-calling and empty assertions for those who are unable see the truth when it comes up and bites them on their vestigial tales. Get it?

Considering the way America finances and turns a blind eye to Israel's policy of genocide against the Palestinians and the fact this shooter is a Palestine born American? I don't find his actions surprising at all. In fact, I am surprised it has not happened sooner. The only way to prevent this sort of thing happening in the future is for America to reevaluate who we support and why, and stop attempting to bully and control other countries. Sharply cutting our military budgets and not using our tax dollars to prop up puppet regimes would save America TRILLIONS every year and is the only way America will EVER pull out of this recession.

No one needs to be censored, but some of you are missing the point. You can have your bloodlust if you so desire. No one can take that from you. But what I hope you will get from progressives is a discussion that connects the nihilistic context of soldiers’ in the current US wars and the meaningless acts of the shooter. Did we find true meaning in the trajedy--It takes its lead from choas and points to chaos. This discussion is of a much grander scope than “gotcha” you killed them so we’ll kill you. We are way beyond the obvious at this point and alot of folks will not catch up. But this is not an indictment of intellect. Observing certain limitations can actually serve us in getting clarity and passion around what we know, what principles will guide us, as we endevour to change the world. You can’t get but so clouded before you have to underground paramilitary style because your emotional toxicity is so unpalatable. And that may be your “victory”. Meanwhile we continue to observe the limits of your dysfunction. Like the canary in the mine, you show us where not to go and we are grateful, Thank You!

#16 Bob Whacksit

Don't you have a mens room stall to be teabagging a friend in?

#14 Belva

FWIW: I think you'll find in fairly short order that moderation here is about as consistent as the trolls' ability to properly spell, usually favoring the deletion of posts by progressives while allowing the insults, and often times racist rants, of trolls to remain.

I see alittle truth is not part of Belva's reality

#4 Mary

Kill an American? Murderer who deserves to be shot.
Kill an Afghani? Hero who deserves a medal.

Hoo-rah!

I see the moderator's post prohibiting insulting language in leiu of civil discourse, which says that insulting comments will be removed. But I also see three postings using "liberal" as an insult and making the tragedy in Killeen a "librul" vs. "us" issue. As a progressive citizen who attempted to engage in respectful discussion on this forum, I request that the posting by the person who accused me of "spewing trash talk" and of being a "typical liberal hypocrite" be removed, along with the posting by the person who asserted that the Killeen shooter is the "new liberal hero." If you say that you will police this forum, please do so.

@mary

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you seem to not understand the difference between understanding and condoning. I can understand a woman shooting and kiliing an abusive husband without necessarily condoning murder. In other words, I can understand her motivations without approving of what she did with those motivations.

First of all, there is no excuse for the actions of this man. He is, plain and simple, a murderer, and he should suffer the consequences of his actions. Secondly, we need to know why he did it, because it may help prevent future acts like the one he committed. It's not excusing him in any way, shape or form, but if you try to deal with something without trying to understand it, your solutions will probably be wrong.

We don't know for certain what his motivations were at this time. There was evidently a religious component to his act, as he had, according to some news sources, expressed an unwillingness to fight against other muslims in Iraq. In addition, it seems he feared for his personal safety going into a war zone, which is natural. However, the way he dealt with these issues was obviously wrong. What surprises me is that he is a psychiatrist, and so presumably could see those issues clearly. If so, his psychiatric training should have enabled him to see that those issues were causing him to lose perspective, and causing him to think and act irrationally. Once again, this is not condoning his actions, but is an attempt to understand why he did what he did.

Undoubtedly, the coming days and weeks will see a spike in verbal and physical attacks against muslims in this country. Some of the verbal attacks on this board have been way out of line. I don't recall the same kind of reaction when fundamentalist christians committed horrific acts, such as when Timothy McVeigh blew up the building in OKC. I am not a muslim, but I do ask that everyone try to see this for what it is, an act by an irrational person, not an attack by muslims as a whole.

Here we have the new hero of the liberal movement. After he gets out of rehab he will be on the view, visiting with Larry King and appearing at democratic fund raisers.

and what do we teach soldiers to do?? shoot someone that they don't know for reasons they will one day realize is to make politicians wealthier. we are carefully taught to hate people we don't know because politicians tell us to.. bleh!!!!

@ 2, 4. and 6. Mary.
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To Mary

It may surprise you that I hope he gets a lethal injection too. I am not quite sure where you are headed with your response. I am not condining the deaths of anyone. What I am saying is that the solutiion to gun violence in America--not in a war zone--is not to arm everyone. For several hours yesterday I listened while CNN hosts, with time to fill, speculated that there must have been multiple shooters since so many were hit. It was only this morning that we can make sense out of it all by learning of the "friendly" fire. In other words, some of those who returned fire did not use the caution required to avoid hitting innocent bystanders. Those people, trying to do good, will have to live with that awful truth for the rest of their lives. Just like the people who keep a gun in their home, only to have an awful accident like a child blowing their head off.

As to your statement about NOT sensing soldiers to war, I diod not even discuss the issue of war in my post. But since you mentioned it, war is sometimes necessary (like in Afghanistan), but sometimes it is waged to accomplish other objectives (like Iraq--attacking a largely unarmed country to capture non-existent WMDs and delivery vehicles. We now can put the pieces together (based on president Bush's statement on D-Day and the guaring solely of the Oil Ministry after the fall of Baghdad and the rush to get a "friendly" Iraqi government to sign contracts surrendering a large part of Iraq's oil wealth to multinational corporations) that the real purpose of the war was economic, not to protect the United States. That makes it a War of Choice, not necessity, and places the blame for the deaths of 5,000 of our service people and up to one million Iraqis firmly at the feet of Bush, cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, asnd the rest of the NeoCon Cabal.

The three most important words in politics are not "I don't recall" as Dick Cheney and Alberto Gonzales like to say, they are "Don't get caught." If there really had been WMDs in Iraq, we would not be having this discussion right now. As it is, it is hard to justify the waste of our resources (personnel, equiment, and tax revenue) on Bush's war of choice. Sorry I make you sick, but your blind support for political leaders who would lead us down the road of deception to acquire greater wealth for their buddies makes me sick.

1. It doesn't condone the deaths, but it puts them in perspective.
2. If soldiers are willing to go to such lengths not to have to go to this place, what does that tell you about this war (think: VIETNAM)
3. The purpose of having a standing army isn't primarily to go to war. (Read Sun Tzu : Art of War, but I have to warn you, he isn't an American author)
4. No one is trying to make excuses for the murderer, but they are making sure to get these facts out into the light. And this before some jerk -- capitalizing on all the fear mongering "he's a terrorist" non-sense -- decides it's a good idea to declare martial law and take away all your rights.

To correct myself: Not all 32 were students; some were faculty.

Oh, and btw, I didn't post to have a "civil" discussion with you. I posted because the opinion piece is trash, plain and simple.

"Virginia Tech student Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 33 fellow students."

Actually, Cho killed 32 fellow students, plus himself.

Belva: I'm the 50% of America that joined the service to allow liberals like you to spew your trash talk. I've done my time in the service and we don't need to "understand" a murderer in order to know that people are dead. You liberals are only "understanding" this to make excuses and somehow make others responsible for his killing. You can slice it a million ways, the man shot and killed fellow Americans on a military base, he should get the lethal injection tomorrow. I don't even understand why we are fighting to save his life. He should be shot, as we would to any enemy that infilitrated our base. And as to the insults, I was just taking my lead from how Air America sounds on the radio. I suppose it's all good for you liberals to insult but it's not good enough for those that disagree with you. Typical liberal hypocrisy.

Mary, your inability to have a civil conversation about something so serious and tragic as the deaths of 13 innocent fellow Americans is what is wrong with this country. First, condoning and explaining are two very different things. Second, repetitive reports on your health are no substitute for logic, compassion, and respectful discourse. Third, name-calling is immature, dishonorable, and non-productive. Fourth, just following orders is what caused the Holocaust, so objecting to a war that has been a holocaust in the middle east for reasons having nothing to do with freedom or democracy is not disloyalty to our country. Go online and look up some quotations from our founding fathers about dissent. Then, google the speech by Craig Murray, former British ambassador, on what we are doing in the Middle East and why. If any of this information makes sense to you, there's hope for others with closed minds who have taken this tragic event as an opportunity to broadcast their prejudices.

So, basically, you are conding the deaths of 13 Americans because other people have killed? Air America is what is wrong with America. You make me sick to my stomach. If the military were able to just "not send" people SOLDIERS to war, then what do you think almost every soldier will do? That's right, they will request the same thing. After all, when the military pays the bills and you don't have to do anything but work here, it's all good, but when you're asked to go overseas and fight whatever is going on, well then it's all different isn't it.

You make me sick, sick, sick. I hope this man gets the lethal injection. Stop making excuses for a murderer, and I could care less what his religion is, he murdered 13 PEOPLE. Idiot.

Re: Students for Concealed Carry on Campus

Great idea. One person opens up on a campus and 30 or 40 bystanders open up in response. As retired General Fred Franks (author: "Into the Storm") correctly points out, once a projectile leaves its barrel (whether a pistol, a rifle, or an 155 mm tank gun), there is no calling it back. This morning, I saw a news update from the Associated Press suggesting that some of the dead and injured at Fort Hood may have been hit by bullets euphamistically called "friendly fire." So, do we think it's a great idea to have a wild shootout on a school campus, with no one really knowing who is a good guy and who is the bad guy, then to have the police arrive and to see 40 or more people with guns drawn? This is a guaranteed recipie for a mass casualty incident.

Before righties label me as a gun control freak, I will suggest that the way to reduce gun violence in America is to have a uniform law (aka Federal) requiring gun registration; to make all gun crimes Federal felonies, to eliminate loopholes that allow whackos to get guns without background checks, and to write legislation that ensures that punishes gun crimes severely; not only the person using the gun but the person who illegally sold that person the gun (if any).

The righties think that the only way to reduce gun violence is to have more people with guns. That's like saying the only way to reduce the incidence of H1N1 is to have more people infected with H1N1. If you want to see gun fights at card games, at bars over darts, at intersections after a fender bender, then issue everyone a gun and require them to keep it on them at all times. My guess is that as many gun proponents will lose their lives or loved ones as non-gun proponents in this circumstance.